Wednesday Crucifixion of Jesus Christ ?
Debate:
Neufeld Dennis / Gerhard Ebersöhn
With reference to
article:
by Dennis Neufeld
- STM staff writer
spiritoftruthministry@gmail.com
http://web.mac.com/spiritoftruth/STM/STM_Open_Forum/Entries/2010/6/7_Open_Forum.html#
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist/TPJ71U006T4PQ5SR7/p7
Dennis Neufeld:
For those of us
that already worship God on His Sabbath (Saturday) the issue of whether Christ
rose from the grave on Sabbath evening or on Sunday morning (as is commonly
held) is of little consequence.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
The fact, Christ
rose from the grave on Sabbath, is no “issue”— an ‘issue’ which you imported
from nowhere, but just assumed from your own biased predisposition. You simply
take for granted the Scriptures declare for unquestionable truth that Christ
resurrected on Sunday, then talk as if ‘the other side’ has made it an “issue
of whether Christ rose from the grave on Sabbath … or on Sunday”.
I shall therefore
do what you have done, but with another objective, to accept for a priori
Divine Truth that Christ resurrected on the Sabbath Day with deep and far
reaching implications and consequences of eternal salvation, based on ALL the
Scriptures— Scriptures quotable truthfully to the letter and to the spirit of
Christ’s fulfilment of them. I therefore for fact may know that Jesus would,
and BECAUSE HE WOULD, DID RISE from the dead, “ON THE SABBATH DAY”.
Not only Jesus’
sacrifice of Himself was prophesied. No, that He would conquer and rise from
death and the grave has been the core and essence of ALL the Scriptures
including ALL those Scriptures “God thus concerning the Seventh Day, spake” in!
That Jesus the
Christ would rise from the dead “SABBATH’S-TIME” was to be expected in that
“God-in-Christ” would become a Man in order to CONQUER death, in that He would
“enter into his own rest” and “the Seventh Day from all his works …”, would
have “… RESTED”.
It is a pity that
those who believe the correct day of God’s Sabbath, would not believe the
Living Truth of the Substance, Essence and Divine Fulfilment of it by God in
Christ according to “all that the prophets wrote concerning the Christ”. What
is such a sabbath day but the sabbath day of the unbelieving Jews?— an empty
shell of formalism that cannot possibly be the Day of Christian worship.
Dennis Neufeld:
The fact is that
He is Risen, He is Risen indeed!
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Halve a truth also
as far as the Truth of the Scriptures is concerned, is not The Truth at all,
but the denial of its God-given and therefore imperative eschatological
wholeness and fullness (using Lohmeyer’s words). That Christ rose from the dead
is true, but not the full truth. According to the Scriptures the full truth
that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, is that He rose from the dead “ON the
Sabbath Day”, and “IN fullness of the Sabbath Day” in Jesus Christ’s FULFILMENT
“OF THE SABBATH DAY”.
Dennis Neufeld:
Yet for most of
the Christian Church the Sunday resurrection of Christ is of paramount
importance. It is the basis for their worship on Sunday. Little if any thought
is given to the WHY of the WHEN of their choice of day. They have even given
Sunday the auspicious title of “The Lord’s Day.” Nowhere in
Scripture is there any evidence of a change of day from the Saturday Sabbath to
the Sunday “sabbath”.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Re:
“For most of the Christian Church the
Sunday resurrection of Christ is of paramount importance.”
Again, DN simply
assumes assumption for fact – engages in another halve-truth-twisting of the
Scriptures. Again DN speaks of “the
Sunday resurrection of Christ” as if it is a fact, while there is no such thing
anywhere in the Scriptures, or had been such thing anywhere in the Scriptures
prophesied or promised or implied or alluded to, EVER, in ANY way.
But yes, for most of the Christian Church it seems the
Resurrection of Christ is of paramount importance. But is it really? Because most of the Christian Church – is my
observation – find the Crucifixion of Christ so adequate they need his Resurrection
only for their paramount important Sunday worship. A proper
‘Sunday-Resurrection theology’ has never been developed simply because it
requires a solid Biblical foundation, which of course totally lacks.
Therefore,
Re:
“It [a “Sunday resurrection of Christ”] is
the basis for their worship on Sunday. Little if any thought is given to the
WHY of the WHEN of their choice of day.”
Absolutely! Had
those Christians given honest thought to “the
WHY of the WHEN of their choice of day”, they would not have “invented”— to
use Karl Barth’s choice of word to express his own doubts in this regard. They
would not have “invented” “their choice
of day”; and they would not have “invented” their dogmatic claim of a
Sunday-resurrection for its reason.
But let the Sabbath-keepers
stop and think about themselves! Have they “given
… any thought to the WHY of the WHEN of their choice of day” the Seventh
Day?! Yes, they have been heard talking about a ‘creation-motive’ for
centuries, but never and nothing at all as far as the Resurrection of Christ is
concerned! So how can Sabbathdayers motivated purely by the Law judge the “choice of day” of Sunday for as long as
they know or understand nothing about the Sundayers’ REASON for having chosen
Sunday?
Let everyone
review his present “choice of day”
and reason for, “choice of day”, until
he has learned more of Christ’s Resurrection “according to the Scriptures” ---
that is, has learned more of Christ’s Resurrection according to prophecy,
promise, typology and poetry in “ALL THAT IS WRITTEN CONCERNING THE CHRIST” in
which “GOD, THUS, CONCERNING THE SEVENTH DAY, SPAKE” …. and make what has been
newly learned, the basis for truly Christian worship as for truly Christian “choice of day”.
Dennis Neufeld:
So when the
question of the day upon which Christ was crucified is raised, we tend to go
along with the commonly held belief that Jesus was crucified on Friday and was
resurrected on Sunday morning.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
That now, is a
fact for you— no from the Scriptures proven fact, but a from situational
reality proven fact.
Dennis Neufeld:
But if (and it IS
a big ‘But if’) it can be proven from Scripture that Christ was crucified not
on Friday but on Wednesday, and was resurrected not on Sunday morning but on
Sabbath evening before sundown then what significance would this have to the
majority of Christian believers?
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Here once more we
encounter presupposed possibilities or impossibilities as though they are the
only possibilities or impossibilities. We are forced to choose between “that
Christ was crucified …”, “… not on Friday but on Wednesday” or not on Wednesday
but on Friday; and “that Christ was resurrected …”, “not on Sunday morning but
on Sabbath evening before sundown” or not on Sabbath evening before sundown but
on Sunday morning --- AS THOUGH these are the only alternatives the Scriptures
offer.
Then it is asked,
“… what significance would this have to the majority of Christian believers?”
Such significance I am afraid it will be too much for Christianity to handle in
a Christian manner! It would be unthinkable the significance and effect it
would reach if yet ANOTHER day of Jesus’ Death and another time and in fact
another day of his Resurrection too, emerged honoured with the significance of
having been the REAL days of his Death and Resurrection.
Let me explain
about the Resurrection-day first.
The theory as expressed
by Dennis Neufeld, that Christ would have been “resurrected on Sabbath evening
before sundown”, is of course, non-existent; no one believes something like it.
Besides, “resurrected
on Sabbath evening before sundown” is very confusing because literally “on
Sabbath evening before sundown” is completely impossible. “On Sabbath evening”
will ALWAYS be AFTER “sundown”— never “before sundown”. Jesus obviously did not
resurrect on what we today call Friday evening after sundown; and “on Sabbath
evening” can only be on what we call Friday evening.
The reason? Friday
and the Sixth Day are not the same days; Saturday and the Sabbath are different
days; and Sunday and the First Day are two days of different parts of respectively
day and night and night and day.
It is very helpful
never to use the Roman nomenclature when speaking of Biblical days.
It is obvious therefore
Dennis Neufeld with “on Sabbath evening” meant Saturday evening. It is just as
obvious Dennis Neufeld made a mistake where he identifies “on Sabbath evening”
with “before sundown”. “On Sabbath evening” is AFTER sundown; “before sundown”
on the Sabbath is “Sabbath’s afternoon” --- precisely the words which Matthew
used THREE TIMES in Matthew 28:1 to give the day and the time of the day “when
there was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord descended from heaven
and rolled the stone away from the tomb”, ‘opse sabbatohn’ + ‘sabbatohn tehi
epiphohskousehi’ + ‘sabbatohn eis mian-sabbatohn’ … AND CHRIST ROSE FROM THE
DEAD.
Now Matthew’s
given time-and-day of “Sabbath’s afternoon”, is NOT what any
Wednesday-crucifixion theory teaches. Yes there are several
Wednesday-crucifixion theorists, and none of them believe Christ’s
“mid-afternoon on the Sabbath Day” Matthew 28:1 Resurrection! They one and all
hold an after-sunset and therefore on-the First Day of the week resurrection—
which is untrue in each instance and in every respect.
Dennis Neufeld:
Is there
corroborating evidence both within Scripture and without to confirm this?
The validity of the 4th Commandment would be brought to bear against the
counterfeit sabbath upon which most of the Church places its confidence. It would
also call attention to the validity of the 7th-day Sabbath as the day upon
which Christ was raised from the dead. This would be a major victory for
the growth of God’s Truth and the Sabbath within the world, which is expected
before the End.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Is there
corroborative evidence within and without Scripture to
confirm a
Wednesday Crucifixion and a Saturday evening Resurrection?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
But that the
Scriptures foretold as well as recorded Jesus’ Crucifixion, Burial and
Resurrection “according to the Scriptures” to have occurred over the “three
days” of which the New Testament makes mention several times and in several
ways, leaves NO doubt! First Corinthians
15:3-4 is conclusive. “Christ the third day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES ROSE
again”; He the SECOND day of the “three days” – “BONE-day” – “was BURIED”—
“according to the ethical Law of the Jews” the PASSOVER-Scriptures John 19:40;
and “Christ ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES DIED for our sins”, “on the FIRST day
they always had to KILL the passover”, Luke 22:7 Mark 14:12.
NOW WITH THESE,
“THREE DAYS” no fault can be found, which Bible-truth supplies corroborating
confirmation from WITHIN Scripture— which is ENOUGH! So that the validity of
the 4th Commandment thereby is EVIDENTLY brought to bear against the
counterfeit sabbath upon which most of the Church places its confidence. THESE,
“THREE DAYS” call attention to the validity of the 7th-day Sabbath— as Hebrews
4:8-10 indisputably attest, as the day upon which Christ was raised from the
dead. THESE, “THREE DAYS” “according to the Scriptures” Christ DIED on,
was BURIED on, and RAISED from the dead on, combine into the, major victory for
the growth of God’s Truth and the Sabbath within the world, which is expected
before the End.
But Seventh-day
Adventism rejects it, as everybody who may know, will have experienced.
Seventh-day Adventism rejects it like everybody else, and with the same or
greater vigour than the rest of Christianity.
Dennis Neufeld:
God established
Passover for
This is a night of
solemn observance to the Lord for bringing them out of the
Chapter 12 of
Exodus tells how God established the timing of the Passover and Feast of
Unleavened Bread.
This month shall
be your beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year to
you. Ex. 12:2.
On the 10th day of
the month each household of
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Just to clarify,
the lamb “was to be killed at twilight” … “at twilight” … or, “in the evening”
in verse 8, or, “at even” in verse 18, from ‘ereb’ -‘late’— equivalent of
‘nesheph’- ‘afternoon’ “dawn” BEFORE ‘night’ as in Psalm 119:147,148. Note that
the words in 147, “of the morning”
are supplied but are not printed cursive, like the word “night” in 148 is
supplied and is indicated supplied having been printed cursive. “I kept vigil [until] the dawn[-ENDING-of-the-day-light], and cried : I have hoped in thy Word
[all day long]; mine eyes keep vigil the [night]
watches, that I might meditate in thy Word [on
my bed in the dark].” Compare Job
7:3,4 where the words “of the day”
are again not printed cursive but indeed are supplied – unnecessarily –, “Wearisome
nights are appointed me; when I lie down, I say, When shall I arise, and the
night be GONE? And so am I [all the day] full of tossings to and fro unto the
dawning[-ENDING-of-the-day]. … Is there no appointed / limited time to man [and
man’s sorrows] on earth? (“The night comes when no one works” or is supposed to
work, John 9:4.) Are not his days also like the days of an hireling, as a
servant earnestly desireth the shadow [of
the declining sun] and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work?”…
AT THE END OF THE DAY! In fact, it is commanded the hireling must get his pay
before night! Leviticus 19:13b. See Proverbs 7:9 where ‘nesheph’ -“at twilight”
is combined with “in the evening” from ‘ereb yom’, “late-day”** in the King
James at the end of the woman’s day-tasks (described in the following verses) BEFORE
“in the black of night” the young man and she would “take our fill of love
until the [morning]”— from “or” -“light / morning light” the
OPPOSITE of “twilight / at twilight”.
**LXX Proverbs
7:9, ‘en skotei hesperinohi’, “in the shadow of the afternoon”. If there is no
sun anymore, there will be no shadow anymore.
So “at twilight”
or “in the evening” or “at even” from ‘ereb’
means EXACTLY THE SAME as ‘nesheph’ the ordinarily ‘LATE’ part of day which
is the last and ending time-period of any ‘appointed’ or ‘restricted’ time-unit
be it a ‘24-hour-day’ or the ‘12-hour-daylight’, of the day. ‘EREB’ stands for
the ENDING-DAYLIGHT-DAY— NEVER for the ‘boqer’ beginning-daylight-day-part, OR
NEVER, for the evening after sundown beginning-of-night-part-of-day … NEVER!
‘EREB’ stands for
the DAYLIGHT- ENDING-DAY-PART the exact equivalent of the Greek, “tehi
epiphoskousehi”— “afternoon-after-mid-afternoon” _UNTIL_ sundown its very
moment— the 3 hour-long period called “the preparation of the Jews” in John
19:42 also demarcated in between Luke 23:54 until verse 56a before 56b.
Let this be clear
from the start, NO sacrifice EVER – according to
the Scriptures in
whole – was killed between sunset and sunrise. The “evening- and morning
oblations-”times, were 3 pm “mid-afternoon” = “the ninth hour” and “the third
hour”. When “He gave the spirit”, and died, “it was the ninth hour”. The
slaughter of “Our Passover” determined that all passover lambs before Him ought
to have been “killed” the same time of day that He died. And so ought to have
been killed all he-goats before Him the same time of day that “there they
crucified Him”— the precise hour of the “morning oblation”, and “it was the
third hour”— IN DAY_LIGHT_-TIME!
So we find both
Great Day of Atonement and Passover’s sacrifices fulfilled on the one day of
the Passover of Yahweh.
Never before
sunrise, and, NEVER after sunset; but “IN BETWEEN THE PAIR OF EVENINGS”
‘behn-ha-arbayim’, Dual of ‘night’ for the first ‘evening’ of the “late
afternoon” from “mid-afternoon” until sunset; and the second of the “pair of
evenings”, “early darkness” or ‘dusk’ from sunset until “in the black of night”.
Thus, how many
times I do not know, is it written, “the third _DAY_” that He would rise. He
ROSE “in-the-very-being-day-light-inclining-shining” –‘tehi epiphoskousehi’; IN
TRUTH, “in-the-very-being-day-light-inclining-shining OF THE SABBATH DAY”
–‘SABBATOHN tehi epiphoskousehi’. Matthew 28:1.
“In-the-very-being-day-light-inclining-shining
OF THE SABBATH DAY” –‘SABBATOHN tehi epiphoskousehi’ = the absolute synonym for
‘opse sabbatohn’; = the absolute synonymous time-of-day of ‘sabbatohn eis mian
[hehmeran] sabbatohn’ -“Sabbath Day towards the First Day of the week”.
Dennis Neufeld:
So you shall
observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this same day I will have brought
your armies out of the
We can clearly see
the example of the lamb as the sacrifice for the freedom of
On the fourteenth
day of the first month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. And on the fifteenth
day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven
days you must eat unleavened bread. Lev. 23: 5-6.
The Passover lamb
was to be killed on the evening before (the 14th day) the day of the Feast of
Unleavened Bread (the 15th day), which was to last for seven days.
(Ex. 12:15). The
first day and the seventh day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread were to
be festival
Sabbaths (Ex.12:16). They were to be observed as a holy convocation, and no
work was to be
done on them other than the preparation of food for the household. If a
seventh-day Sabbath fell between the two festival Sabbaths it was also to be
observed.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
As to the TIME,
DAY, and DATE that the passover lamb was to be killed …
1) on “the 14th
day” of the First Month …
2)
“mid-afternoon”, “the ninth hour” of the
day, i.e., ‘3 p.m.’…
3) Every household
slaughtered its own lamb therefore all the lambs could be killed at the same
time of the day throughout the land …
4) BEFORE “the evening” of “the day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the 15th day)”— that is,
three hours BEFORE sunset and the 15th
day would begin.
Re: DN, >> “No work was to be done on
them other than the preparation of food for the household.”<<
No ORDINARY work
was to be done.
The works COMMANDED
for the feast day of the first eating of unleavened bread, was mandatory,
and neglect of any
of those tasks would be at the peril of one’s life.
The story of the
exodus – Exodus 10 to 15 – allowed no uncertainties about the Israelites’ GREAT
obligations with regard to the passover’s Bone-day.
With the view to
Jesus Christ
nothing about this
fifteenth day of the month and feast-“sabbath” of the passover,
was of lesser
importance or significance
than the day
before – “the fourteenth day of the First Month” –
when “they had to
KILL the passover”;
or,
than the day after
– “the sixteenth day of the First Month” –
“the day after the
sabbath” of the passover
when the “First
Sheaf Offering” had to be “waved before the LORD”.
That was why “exodus-day”
the passover’s fifteenth of the month “sabbath”, was considered the passover’s
“combining day” or “day-of-transfer” or “in-between-sabbath”. “No bone of it
[the passover], shall be severed or broken.” Psalm 34:20; 139:15,16 Numbers
9:12 Ex 12:46 John 19:40.
Dennis Neufeld:
Then some of the
scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from
You.” But he answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous
generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign
of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly
of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights
in the heart of the earth. Matt. 12:39-40.
Most erudite Bible
scholars say that any part of three days fulfills the qualification that the ‘
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Re: DN, >> “Most erudite Bible scholars
say that any part of three days fulfills the qualification that the ‘
That was not “Bible scholars” saying; that was Christ
saying. “Destroy this temple [kill Me], and in three days I will
raise it up [I will resurrect].”
From the day
MARKED by the MOMENT of Jesus’ Death until the day MARKED by the MOMENT of his
Resurrection it would count and be, “three days”— “IN THREE days”, “destroyed”
AND, “raised up”!
1) “The very first day KILL” – Abib 14
– night and day –
Mark 14:12 Matthew
26:17 Luke 22:7 John 19:14; 13:1 1Corinthians 11:23;
2) “In-between-day / Bone-day” – Abib 15
– night and day –
“first day no
leavened bread … EAT … that which remained taken forth, out … burned with fire
… Succot … Etam” … “great day of sabbath” John 18:28x19:31 Mark 15:42 Matthew
27:57 John 19:31,38 Luke 23:50;
3) “Day after sabbath” – Abib 16
– night and day –
“brought in …
planted”; “wave First Sheaf Offering” :
“On the Sabbath mid-afternoon unto / towards / before the First Day of the
week.”
“THREE DAYS IN THE
WILDERNESS”
“THREE DAYS THICK
DARKNESS”
“THREE DAYS THE
PLAGUE”
=
“THREE DAYS IN THE
_HEART_ OF THE EARTH”, ENDED!
≠
“in the grave-three nights and three days”
ended!
“… in the grave-three nights and three days”
therefore is NOT
“Jesus at His word”, because Jesus NEVER said,
“he would be in
the grave”, three nights and three days.
There is a
difference between literally “in the EARTH” and figuratively “in the HEART of
the earth”— a difference as big as between LIFE and DEATH.
For Christ was
ALIVE “LIKE the prophet Jonas in the HEART of the earth” was alive WHILE,
He suffered dying the death of death.
But –
1) AFTER the first night and day He had suffered dying the death of death “on
the very first day (the) leaven” of his life was to be tapped and “removed”, Jesus
DIED. Abib 14.
2) THEN AFTER Jesus had been DEAD for three
hours at least,
and the second night and day were BEGINNING
“… and because
THAT DAY was great day of sabbath**,
the Jews asked
Pilate that the crucified be taken away …
and after that … Joseph
asked Pilate … the body …
and he took the
body away and prepared it …”
“THAT DAY”, “MID-AFTERNOON
the Sabbath approaching” … “LAID they Jesus”—
“in the earth”; in
the “
“And Joseph closed
the grave and went home.”
“And the [two] women
went home and prepared spices.”
So, from John
19:42 Luke 23:54 “by the time of / due to the Jews’ preparations … daylight
inclining mid-afternoon towards / unto / before the Sabbath being THAT DAY”,
ENDING, Jesus afterwards lay BURIED, IN, his grave “in the earth”.
3) THEN, for “THE THIRD” night and “DAY”, Jesus would ‘rest in his grave’—
FROM
that
“… the women” from
after sunset “… had begun to rest the Sabbath according to the
Commandment”
UNTIL …
“… WHEN SUDDENLY
THERE WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE IN THE END OF THE SABBATH MID-AFTERNOON DAYLIGHT
INCLINING TOWARDS the First Day of the week.” Matthew 28:1
There you have “three nights and three days”,
‘fitted into’, a “THREE DAYS” “-period” of,
“from sundown” between the 13th and the
14th days of the First Month until sundown between the 14th and 15th days “the
very first day” of passover;
and
“from sundown” between the 14th and the
15th days of the First Month until sundown between the 15th and 16th days “the
first day no leavened bread shall be eaten” of passover;
and
“from sundown” between the 15th and the
16th days of the First Month until sundown between the 16th and 17th days “the
first day ye shall count seven times seven days” of passover.
And so you get the
fourth day of the passover, the third day that unleavened bread was eaten, and
the second day of the count to the fiftieth day of Pentecost …
4) “Then when the Sabbath WAS OVER, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary AND Salome, went and bought spices and
ointments …”
By then the
resurrection was PAST --- indeed already THREE HOURS EARLIER “on the Sabbath
Day”, past! Therefore Mary Magdalene
– knowing a guard was set at the grave – wanted to go and see if it might be
possible for the three of them to get into the grave to apply the spices and
ointments they had just bought, as well as the spices she and the other Mary
had prepared already on the afternoon of “the Preparation that was the
Day-Before-the-Sabbath”. So, after they had purchased the extra ointments and
spices for Salome’s sake who was not at the Burial on the Preparation
[‘Friday’], “Mary comes to the grave being early-darkness still” or “being dusk
still, and SEES THE STONE cast away from the grave … then RUNS back, and comes
to Simon Peter and (John) …”
**[“sabbath” of
the passover, “THAT DAY / the selfsame / BONE-day” that BEGAN, here, Mark 15:42
Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50 John 19:31,38]
Dennis Neufeld:
………………………..
… let us now look
at some passages relative to the few days before and after the crucifixion of
Christ and see if the possibility of translation error exists.
Now on the first
day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark,
and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. John 20:1.
The first thing to
understand about this verse is that the word ‘week’ was translated from the
Greek word Sabbatons. The Sabbatons refer specifically to the week of
Sabbaths between Passover and Pentecost.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Denied!
‘Sabbatohn’ Plural
Genitive of ‘sabbaton – sabbata’ is of course a Greek word.
Now the LXX Greek
Old Testament uses the words ‘hepta hebdomados’ – “seven seven (days) / weeks”,
and ‘eschatehs hebdomados’ – “last seven (days) / week” in Leviticus 23:15. The
Greek does not use the Greek Hebraism for ‘sabbath’ or ‘sabbaths’.
The words in the
Hebrew that “refer specifically to the
week of Sabbaths between Passover and Pentecost,” is the Singular,
‘shabbath’, and the Hebrew word for “seven”, ‘
In combination the
words ‘
The semantics and
phonetics are clear and as visible as audible to “refer specifically to the week of Sabbaths between Passover and
Pentecost”.
NO importance should be attached to the ‘
“Seven-shabbath-FEAST”
was not even a proper holy or feast
period BY ITSELF …
JUST AS WE FIND PENTECOST IN THE NEW TESTAMENT is totally dependent upon the
Passover of Yahweh Jesus Christ “Our Passover”, and upon his Death and
Resurrection: First Sheaf of the harvest and the consequent BREAD eaten—
symbolising the completion and gains of the harvest through the Outpouring of
the Holy Spirit.
The translators were
CORRECT interpreting the Hebraism ‘sabbatohn’ in the New Testament according to
Greek IDIOM as “week / of the week” instead of according to literal Greek
transcribing. The meaning , “week / the week”, is above all suspicion of
“bias”. It is bias that prompts critics to give all sorts of other dogmatic
meanings to the word ‘sabbatohn / sabbatou’ in the New Testament. The LXX in
Leviticus 23:15 uses “seven sevens” of days; not the Hebraism, ‘sabbaton >
sabbata > sabbatohn’.
“Our Passover” and “Goat for the LORD Azazel”
CONFESSED—
·
“Hereafter
shall the Son of Man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
·
“Ye
have taken and by wicked hands have crucified and slain
·
“Jesus
of Nazareth … Man Approved of God Among you.
·
“Being
delivered by the determinate council and foreknowledge of God …
·
“God
had sworn with an oath to Him …
·
“Thou
wilt not leave my soul in hell …
·
“Thou
hast made known to Me the ways of life.
·
“I
foresaw the LORD before my face …
·
“for
He is on my right hand always …
·
“that
I should not be moved.
·
“Therefore also my flesh shall rest in HOPE …
·
“for
Thou wilt not suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption.
·
“God
having loosed the pains of death …
·
“the
LORD said unto my Lord, Sit Thou on my right hand.
·
“Therefore
being by the right hand of God exalted …
·
“let
all the House of Israel know assuredly …
·
“that
God hath made that same Jesus …
·
“whom
ye have crucified both Lord and Christ.”
·
“Thus
giving up the ghost, Jesus cried with a loud voice, Father, into thy hands I
commend my spirit.”
·
“THIS
JESUS hath God raised up …
·
“Because
it was not possible that He should be holden of death” or grave.
·
Amen
Dennis Neufeld:
Pentecost was
calculated by counting seven Sabbatons (Sabbaths) from the first
Sabbaton (Sabbath) of the Feast of Unleavened Bread plus one day (fifty days)
to get to Pentecost. John, a product of Jewish culture, knew about the Feasts
and would use the word Sabbatons only in relation to the calculating the days
to Pentecost. He would not have used the word to mean ‘week’, which is an
entirely different word.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Reminder: DN, “… from the first
Sabbaton (Sabbath) of the Feast of Unleavened Bread plus one day (fifty days)
to get to Pentecost. John, a product of Jewish culture, knew about the Feasts
and would use the word Sabbatons only in relation to the calculating the days
to Pentecost. He would not have used the word to mean ‘week’, which is an
entirely different word.”
WHICH text of John
is Dennis Neufeld referring to? “…Now on
the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was
still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the
tomb. John 20:1.
The first thing to understand about this verse is that
the word ‘week’ was translated from the Greek word Sabbatons. The
Sabbatons refer specifically to the week of Sabbaths between Passover and
Pentecost.”
Hereby now, Dennis
Neufeld has ransacked his own cause and mission. According to these quoted
statements of his, Neufeld in so many words says that Jesus rose from his
grave, “the first Sabbaton (Sabbath) of
the Feast of Unleavened Bread” … which was Abib 15 the day immediately
after Abib 14 the day that He died! … simply through negligence and comfortable
assuming instead of researching and testing and re-testing. I feel sorry for
him but at the same time happy for him; it’s the way we all learn— ‘by trial
and error’. Now is Neufeld’s opportunity to learn. So let us rather thank and
praise God for our mistakes. Ephesians 5:20. “All things work together for good
to them that love God.” Romans 8:28. “Submitting yourselves one to another in
the fear of God.” Ephesians 5:21.
Pentecost was not “calculated” by counting
seven “Sabbatons (Sabbaths)”— as we have seen when we before dealt on the
ACTUAL Greek and Hebrew terms in Leviticus 23:15 our ‘source-text’. Pentecost
was every year “proclaimed” and "counted", that is, 'calculated'— for
which reason it could not have depended on the weekly Sabbath that was not
yearly “proclaimed” but had forever been established. Pentecost was every year
determined by Jews having counted ONE period that consisted of “seven sevens
of days and one” irrespective of ‘the week’ that ends on the Seventh
Day-of-the-week-Sabbath.
We may also
mention that the word “Sabbatons (Sabbaths)”— Plural, not at all exists in the
entire Hebrew Scriptures. The Singular ‘shabbath’ is used for Singular AND
Plural. It is a Hebrew IDIOM, that’s why and that’s how! It is a peculiarity of
that language, such as any language may have, for example Greek, that borrowed
the word “sabbaton” Singular / “sabbata” Plural from the Hebrew and used either
terms for either the Singular or
the Plural
meanings. Language is a living organism; not calculus.
It is therefore
simply WRONG to aver that John “would use
the word Sabbatons only in relation to the calculating [of] the days to
Pentecost”. John used the Greek word ‘sabbatohn’ to mean the
English-become-universal “week”, which is an entirely different word than the
Hebrew word ‘specifically’ used “in relation to the calculating [of] the days to Pentecost” in Leviticus
23:15. (As was shown above.)
To be exact, John
did NOT use the Greek word ‘sabbatohn’ to mean the English-become-universal
“week” or weekly Sabbath, per se! Because he used the word ‘sabbatohn’ IN A
PHRASE, that ‘specifically’ semantically and etymologically AS A PHRASE became
‘designed’, to mean the English-become-universal PHRASE, such as “First Day of
the week”; in other words, to mean the NAME of a “… Day-of-the-week”, viz, in
this instance in John 20:1, “the First Day of the week”.
The ‘Day’-halve of
the Biblical ‘First Day’ overlaps 12 hours with the ‘Roman, Sunday’s’ ‘Day’ or
middle-halve; so that the Roman Sunday’s night-halve, falls divided 50/50 on
both ends of its daylight ‘Day’. [Quite a mess!]
The point is, the
Greek words in any instance of use such as in John 20:1, COMBINED and as a
UNITARY PHRASE, will always function like a NAME of a ‘Day-of-the-week’. That
is the ‘specific’ and exclusive use, function and meaning such phrases in the
New Testament AND OUTSIDE the New Testament in secular Greek use of language,
have. Examples are millions upon millions.
Dennis Neufeld:
So the better
translation of the first part of this verse would be Now on the first of
the Sabbatons while it was dark.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
“… on the first of the Sabbatons …” has
already been answered and refuted.
Re: DN,
1) “while it was dark” …
2) “when it was
yet dark” KJV 1611
3) “früh da es
noch finster war” Luther 1914
4) “early, while
it still was dark” OAV 1933
5) “the morning
early while it still was dark” NAV 1971
6) “the Sunday
morning early when it was dark still” NAV 1979
7) “the Sunday
morning early when it was dark still” BB 1986
8) “early when it
was still dark” MLB 1969
9) “early while it
was still dark” RSV 1952
10) “very early in
the morning while it was still dark” Phillips 1960
11) “early Sunday
morning while it was still dark” LB
12) “dès le matin,
comme il faisait encore obscure” Louis Segond 1963
These few – but, I
believe representative – examples of translations are distinguished in John
20:1, by …
A.
One, That “dark”
is an Adjectival --- not a Noun as in the Text, ‘(heh) skotía’, “(the)
darkness”.
Two, That “dark”
is Nominative --- not Genitive / Possessive as in the Text, ‘skotías’, “of
(the) darkness.
Three, That “dark”
is an Adjectival forming a Predicate in conjunction with an Auxiliary Verb,
“(it) was dark” --- not as in the Text, a Noun ruling an Auxiliary Participle
to Gender and Case, “being darkness”, ‘ousehs skotias’.
B.
One, That the earliest
translations, like KJV – avoided using the Adjective “early”, ‘proh-i’.
Two, That
translations since the twentieth century treat the simple Adjective, “early,
‘proh-i’, in the phrase, “early darkness” as a Predicative Adverb, “(it was)
early” …
Three, … transforming
it into an Adverbial Nomen, “early”, or “early morning” or “morning early”
etcetera.
C.
Just about all
translations focus the Adverb, “still”, ‘eti’, on the Adjectival, “dark”,
“still dark”; not like the Text requires, on the Adjective, “being still EARLY
darkness”; or on the Verbal Participle, “still BEING early darkness”.
And through these
different ‘methods’ all the deemed ‘translations’, transform the meaning of the
clause, ‘pro-i skotias eti ousehs’, “STILL BEING EARLY DARKNESS”, into its
direct opposite and negation, because “Still being early darkness” or “Being
still early darkness” is at the BEGINNING of night just after sunset; while any
of the examples says it was the ending of night just before sunrise.
But only perceive
the events that lead up to Jesus’ first appearance to Mary Magdalene, and it
immediately strikes one that this coming to the tomb of Mary Magdalene is the
event that set off every subsequent action by anyone in the drama during the
rest of that night until Jesus “early on the First Day of the week appeared to
Mary Magdalene, first.”
Mary Magdalene was
the first person to see that the stone was removed from the tomb. She nor
anyone else yet knew whether the body was still in the grave or not. So every
going to and coming home from the tomb during the hours of that night AFTER
Jesus’ Resurrection, was set in motion in chain-reaction sequence by Mary’s
FIRST _SIGHT_ of the rolled away tomb-STONE. To claim John 20:1 confirms the
occasion and time of Jesus’ Resurrection is absurd, obnubilate, obfuscated and
confused.
Dennis Neufeld:
This would have
put Mary at the open grave just after sundown on Sabbath, which would mean that
Jesus must have been resurrected before sundown on the first Sabbath after the
Passover.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Yes, Jesus rose on
the Seventh Day Sabbath; and yes, that was “on
the first Sabbath after the Passover”; there is nothing technical
about “this”.
But once the sun
was down AFTER that Seventh Day Sabbath, it had had become the First Day of the
week already BEFORE Mary had gone to the tomb. Therefore it is WRONG to say “This would have put Mary at the open grave
just after sundown on Sabbath”.
This would have
put Mary in SIGHT of the cast away STONE-door of the grave, “just after sundown”,
BUT, “on the First Day of the week”— EXACTLY as found translated in John 20:1.
But as Neufeld
says, it “would mean that Jesus must have
been resurrected before sundown on the first Sabbath after the Passover”.
Yes, the first “SEVENTH Day Sabbath” after the passover. Definitely yes, on the
first weekly Sabbath after the capital letter “Passover”— name of the
passover’s ‘sabbath’!
Which solid fact
by the way, confirms our explanation of the clause “proh-i skotia eti ousehs”
with “being early darkness still / being dusk still”, as beyond any doubt ---
AND, confirms just as solidly “that Jesus
must have been resurrected before sundown”, BEFORE “… the First Day OF
THE WEEK”.
Because “the first Sabbath after the Passover”
was the first WEEKLY Sabbath after
1),
the ‘passover’ Abib 14;
and after
2),
the passover’s ‘sabbath’ Abib 15.
(However,
whichever making NO difference to the TIME, of
Mary’s first SIGHT
of the cast away door-STONE having been “on the First Day-of-the-week” AFTER
Abib 16 the Sabbath before it, and therefore making NO difference to the TIME,
of Mary’s first SIGHT of the cast away door-STONE having been “the First
Day-of-the-week” on Abib 17.)
I would like to
make a note at this point of our conversation, Dennis Neufeld, your courtesy,
thanks.
I have read your
article for only a few lines section for section as I commented on it. I have
not read the whole of it even now. But right from the start I knew what your
thesis in the last analysis would be based on. I will now tell what I knew that
basis is going to be.
No, I am not
clairvoyant or ‘inspired’; just experienced. You see, _ALL_
Wednesday-crucifixion theories depend on one, same, single supposition. You,
Dennis, is obviously not aware of it that your whole position on the ‘three
days issue’, is kept up by the principle of legalism.
I am not judging
or condemning you, be assured. You do not intentionally trust the legalism
involved; your motives are pure, I fully believe.
How do I say
legalism is the strength and grounds of your whole understanding of the ‘three
days’? What SHOWS it? THIS— the undeniable fact TWO ‘sabbaths’ occurred during
ANY coincidence of the annual seven days feast of unleavened bread and the
regular week.
What has that to
do with legalism, you may ask?
Watch! I say it is
coming in what remains in this conversation. If it does not pop up fat and smug
in its arrogance, I shall be the king on his horse paraded through the city
streets, naked. If it does get exposed, then it [Please, I don’t say you!] …
then IT, must be made a show of openly by the triumphant overcoming of Jesus
Christ over the works of the Law.
Dennis Neufeld:
This [“Now on the first of the Sabbatons while it
was dark” in lieu of “Now on the
first day of the week … early, while it was still dark”] would make
complete sense to a Jewish reader but either did not make sense to the
translators or, possibly, the translators understood the real meaning and
changed the word to suit their purposes. Is it possible that the translators
changed the meaning to put Jesus’ resurrection on Sunday morning?
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
I don’t think the
Greek would make much sense to a Jewish reader either way. Unless perhaps he was
a Christian.
As far as the meaning
of “sabbatohn” is concerned, I think you have been the one for whom it did not
make sense, while the translators understood the real meaning and translated
perfectly in John 20:1.
But you are right
that the translators understood the real meaning of the adverbial clause of
time, “prohï skotias eti ousehs”, “while being early darkness / dusk still”, but INTENTIONALLY CORRUPTED the
meaning “to put Jesus’ resurrection on
Sunday morning … to suit their [shameful, haughty,] purposes”!
Dennis Neufeld:
But on the first
day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bringing the spices
which they had prepared. Luke 24:1.
The Greek word
which was translated dawn or daybreak in this verse (and in
Acts 5:21) is, in reality, a word which means just the
opposite. The word is not dawn but nocturne, or turn of
night. In the western world we naturally associate the word daybreak with
sunrise, so we would assume that this would hold the same meaning in the Hebrew
world of Christ’s time. This is just not the case. Daybreak
means the break between days-the end of one day and the beginning of another.
This Nocturne occurred at sundown not at sunrise. This would
affect our understanding about when the women actually went to the tomb-they
would have gone there just after sunset at the close of the Sabbath, at the
very beginning of the first day of the week.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
I am very sorry, with
respect, but I cannot agree with anything that you say here. You obviously are at
the cruel mercy of misinformation. You wasted what I still believe, was honest
effort.
Best for me will
be not to try to refute your arguments, but simply to present the information
at my disposal.
“The Greek word which was
translated dawn or daybreak in this verse … Luke 24:1 …
(and in Acts 5:21) is….” not one, but two, found in an Adjectival
phrase of time, “órthrou bathéohs”.
‘orthrou’ here
from ‘orthros’ x3, Luke 24:1 John 8:2 Acts 5:21
In John 8:2,
“orthros … palin”, “morning … again”, ‘as usual’; “all the people came to Him in
the temple”— clearly “morning” after sunrise;
In Acts 5:21,
“hupo orthron”, “about morning”, “people entered the temple” — clearly
“morning” after sunrise;
Luke 21:38,
“ohrthridzen”, “all the people in the temple”— clearly “morning” after sunrise;
In Revelation
22:16, “ho astehr ho lampros ho orthrinos
/ prohïnos”, “the bright like a lamp [in the night] morning star”,
clearly “morning”
before sunrise;
In the LXX about
80 times in different forms normally meaning ‘morning’ = ‘early daylight’ before
or after sunrise.
Therefore, why
would ‘orthros’ not mean ‘about sunrise’ in Luke 24:1 as well?
For two reasons,
One, That the word
‘orthros’ is used in conjunction with other words or in another word-form. It
is the other WORDS used in the context that help give ‘orthros’ its more
precise meaning. Our examples illustrate it well.
Two, That the
nature, sequence and interlocking in the wider context of EVENTS determine,
necessitate and even force upon certain things in the narrower context,
inevitable meaning.
As to reason One
then,
In Luke 24:1 –
like in our examples above – another word helps to give “orthros” its more
precise contextual meaning. We shall get to that word, soon.
As to reason Two,
The visit
described in Luke 24:1-11 must have been the first visit the women paid the
grave that night.
It must have been
after Mary “while it was still early darkness” before dark of night, had seen
the stone was cast away from the tomb— recorded in John 20:1,2.
It must have been
before Jesus “early on the First Day of the week, appeared to Mary Magdalene
first”— recorded in Mark 16:9 and John 20:11-17.
Jesus’ appearance
to Mary was his first appearance, and therefore Mark 16:9 and John 20:11-17 are
earlier than Matthew 28:9,10 when He appeared to the other women— Jesus’ second
appearance.
The
time-indication as well as event, “orthros batheohs” in Luke 24:1 therefore
fall right in the middle between “dusk” in the west and “dawn” in the east …
“DEEPEST MORNING-OF-NIGHT”. Logically and linguistically there cannot be any
problem implied as far as the time of night is concerned in Luke 24:1— plain
fact and act so far. And further plain fact and act will confirm. But that is
for another day.
Therefore let us
now return …
… to reason One,
… Luke 24:1 … another
word helps to give “orthros” its more precise contextual meaning.
That word is
“batheohs” from ‘bathos’.
Jona 2:5, “the
DEPTH closed me round about.” Psalm 69:2; 129:1, Job 28:11 Proverbs 18:3
Ecclesiastes 7:25 Isaiah 7:11; 51:10 Ezekiel 26:20; 27:34; 31:14,18;
32:18,22,24; 43:13,14 Amos 9:3 Micah 7:19 Zacharias 10:11.
**Judges 5:30, ‘divide’,
‘bathos’ variant for ‘bamma’.
In this one word
“DEPTH”, “BATHOS / BATHEOHS” as in the DEEPEST OF DEPTHS of NIGHT or SEA or
EARTH or SIN or DEATH or THE DEAD or PIT, we discover such DEPTH of the
REDEEMING Gospel of Jesus Christ one could devote a life’s study to it.
To me it has been
of overwhelming meaningfulness that with this first visit by the women “IN THE
DEPTH of the DARKNESS of NIGHT” in Jesus’ TOMB in the EARTH in the DEPTH of the
PIT of his
I see this today
for the first time in my life as I perused the Scriptures (in the LXX) given
herewith.
O God, please let
me say that I love you because you loved me first!
Man, God is great!
His Word can never be exhausted!
Alright.
Dennis Neufeld:
“The Greek word [batheohs] … is … turn of night … the break between
days-the end of one day and the beginning of another….”
It does not sound
wrong or impossible that “the Deep” can mean the ‘turning point’. What could
better fit that meaning than midnight, the deepest of the night?
Nevertheless I could
find only one Scripture that , literally might support your idea of “bathos”
meaning a ‘dividing point’ or “turn” or ‘split’. But that incidence is a faulty
use of ‘bathos’ in the place of the correct word. **Judges 5:30, ‘divide’,
‘bathos’ variant for ‘bamma’.
Then it must be
stressed that nothing in connection with the word ‘bathos – batheohs’ suggests
or supports the evening or the morning, that one must be the “nocturne” in
favour of the other. It is unnecessary that any should get preference because
the duration of the Bible day from sunset to sunset needs no better or
outside help to stand on its own than
what it gets from the Scriptures itself.
Understanding the
“three days”, “according to the Scriptures” rather depends on the simplest
explanation possible. Just read Paul in the two places where he explained how
it happened that he understood the “three days” the way he did, 1Corinthians
15:3 and 11:23, “I have received of the Lord that which I delivered unto you,
that the Lord Jesus the same night in which He was betrayed took bread …” WHAT
SCRIPTURE CAME UP as it were BEFORE PAUL’S EYES? Exodus— the story of the
exodus of
Dennis Neufeld:
And the women who
had come with Him from
Now when the
Sabbath was past, Mary Magdelene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought
spices, that they might come and anoint Him. Mark 16:1
Notice that in one
of the passages they prepared spices then rested on the Sabbath, and in the
other they rested the on Sabbath then bought spices. So who is correct, Mark or
Luke? Is one lying? Are both correct? Or could this dichotomy merely be a
different perspective looking at the same event? If that is the case then that
would mean that there were two Sabbaths with a preparation day in between. Is
this a real possibility? It appears that Scripture indicates that there were
two Sabbaths: one was a Festival Sabbath, the Passover; the other was a 7th-day
Sabbath. Each had their own preparation day, but it was the one between the two
Sabbaths that is indicated in the two previous texts.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
My first
Question,
What is it that
makes Dennis Neufeld think there was “… one
day … between the two
Sabbaths that is [Sic.] indicated in
the two previous texts”, “Luke
23:55-56” and “Mark 16:1”?
My second
Question,
What makes Dennis
Neufeld think there are “two Sabbaths” indicated in the two texts? In other words, Why,
according to Dennis Neufeld, would the two texts not indicate the SAME Sabbath?
As far as I can
see, Dennis Neufeld has NO reason to think 1 or 2
Let us see what
the two texts say …
>> “Luke 23:50-56 …”
<<
What happened
before verse 50?
“The ninth hour …
Jesus gave up the ghost” v44b, 46b
Verse 48,
“All the people
that came together TO THAT SIGHT” – of Jesus’ crucifixion and death – “having
witnessed the things of THAT SIGHT that were done, flabbergasted, WENT BACK
HOME.”
What happens in
Luke 23:50?
Joseph arrives.
What happens in
Luke 23:51?
Nothing; it is a
parenthesis containing Joseph’s credentials.
What happens in
Luke 23:52,53?
Joseph buries
Jesus [and closes the grave and goes away Mark
16:46c Matthew
27:60d].
What happens in
Luke 23:54?
Nothing; a
parenthesis is recorded of the past 21 hours of the day in which Joseph “to the
Law of Jewish ethics” [the Torah] initiated and finished to bury Jesus “by the
time of the Jews’ preparations” John 19:42, “mid-afternoon the Sabbath nearing”.
What happens in
Luke 23:55?
Nothing; it is a
parenthesis containing the minutes of the women present at the Burial.
What happens in
Luke 23:56a?
The women
“returned home and prepared spices and ointments.”
What happens in
Luke 23:56b?
“The women began
to rest the Sabbath according to the [Fourth] Commandment” the Seventh
Day-Sabbath.
When would they
have begun to rest?
At the START of
the Seventh Day-Sabbath “according to the [Fourth] Commandment”— IMMEDIATELY
after the women had done their AFOREMENTIONED preparations.
When did the women
prepare their spices?
Luke 23:54a,
“That Day was /
has been The Preparation.”
Luke 23:54b,
“It was mid-afternoon
the Sabbath Day approaching” [“due to the Jews’ preparations to be made.” John
19:42]
Three hours
remained until sundown.
Seven eighths of
the day – 21 of its 24 hours – have elapsed.
The very next
words in Luke’s narrative after the words, “… began to rest [Ingressive Aorist]
the Sabbath according to the Fourth
Commandment …”,
are:
“As soon as on the
First Day of the week, they came to the grave.”
Luke speaks of the
Seventh Day Sabbath.
…
>> “Mark 16:1”<<
What happened in
Mark before 16:1?
“Jesus gave up the
ghost.” 15:37 (Luke 23:44b, 46b)
What happens in
Mark where
in Luke 23:48 is
found a parenthesis recorded of
“All the people
that came together TO THAT SIGHT” – of Jesus’ crucifixion and death – “having
witnessed the things of THAT SIGHT that were done, flabbergasted, WENT BACK
HOME”?
Mark OMITTED it.
What happens in
Mark 15:42?
Joseph arrives.
(Luke 23:50)
What happens in
Mark 15:43a?
Nothing; it is a
parenthesis containing Joseph’s credentials. (Luke 23:51)
What happens in
Mark 15:43b-46?
Joseph buries
Jesus and closes the grave [and goes away Matthew 27:60d]. (Luke 23:52,53)
What is in Mark
where
in Luke is found a
parenthesis recorded of the past 21 hours of the day in which Joseph “to the
Law of Jewish ethics” [the Torah] initiated and finished to bury Jesus [“by the
time of the Jews’ preparations” John 19:42], “mid-afternoon the Sabbath
nearing”?
Nothing. Mark did
not record it.
What happens in
Mark 15:47?
Nothing; it is a
parenthesis containing the minutes of the women present at the Burial. (Luke
23:55)
What happens in Mark
where in Luke the women “returned home and prepared spices and ointments” (Luke
23:56a)?
Mark omitted it
What happens in Mark
where in Luke
“The women began
to rest the Sabbath according to the [Fourth] Commandment” the Seventh
Day-Sabbath. (Luke 23:56b)?
Mark omits it. He
perhaps chose other sources than Luke.
The very next
words in Mark’s narrative after the parenthesis containing the minutes of the
women present at the Burial, 15:47, are,
“And when the
Sabbath was over Mary Magdalene and Mary of James and Salome, bought sweet
spices that when they go they could anoint Him … So very early on the First day
of the week ...”.
Mark in 16:1
speaks of the Seventh Day Sabbath and the “First Day of the week” after the
Seventh Day Sabbath— the very one and same “Sabbath according to the (Fourth)
Commandment” that Luke writes about in 23:54b and 56b.
We find therefore,
that according to
Dennis Neufeld:
“there were two Sabbaths: one was a Festival
Sabbath, the Passover; the other was a 7th-day Sabbath. Each had their own
preparation day”.
SURE!
There were two Sabbaths:
One was a “Festival Sabbath”—
the passover’s “FEAST”
Leviticus 23:6a of Unleavened Bread’-, ‘sabbath’ Leviticus 23:11,15,16.
It was “the first
day …” [of “seven days” Leviticus 23:6b] “… no leavened bread shall be eaten”
Leviticus 23:15b— Abib 15.
“The Preparation of the passover’s” “Sabbath Festival” John 19:14, was “the
very first day ye shall REMOVE leaven” Leviticus 23:15, “the day they always
had to KILL the passover” Luke 22:7 Mark 14:12.
“The Preparation
of the passover” John 19:14 was “the first day of removing leaven, when they
always KILLED the passover” Luke 22:7 Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17 John 13:1,30
1Corinthians 11:23— Abib 14.
“… the other (‘sabbath’) was a 7th-day Sabbath”—
AS SEEN IN THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS in both Luke 23 and Mark 15 and 16 analysed
above.
It had its own Preparation Day, “The Preparation which
is The Fore-Sabbath” Mark 15:42-47 Matthew 27:57-61 Luke 23:50-56a John
19:31-42.
Here now the definitive factor!!!
This “The Preparation which is The Fore-Sabbath” Mark
15:42-47 Matthew 27:57-61 Luke 23:50-56a John 19:31-42, “… WAS GREAT DAY OF
SABBATH” of the passover.
It was the
‘Friday’, in the year that our Lord was crucified, died, and was buried and
“Late on the Sabbath” resurrected from the dead again, that was “great day of
sabbath’s” “BONE-day” of the Passover of Yahweh. The Sixth Day of the week in
that year was both the Preparation of the weekly Sabbath Day and the annual
sabbath day of the passover. While ‘Thursday’ the Fifth Day’ was both “the
passover” AND “The Preparation of the passover”
on which the lamb was slaughtered and the leaven (of life) was
removed.
There was no
‘work-day’ in between the passover’s ‘sabbath’ and the ‘weekly Sabbath’. But
between “the first day they KILLED the passover” and “the third day” “Our
Passover” rose from the dead again, there was “THAT SELF-SAME DAY”, the Lord
Jesus’ “BONE-DAY”— the “body” of “that which remained”, “not broken or severed”
one bone, or one bone from another, but “HOLDING TO THE HEAD”, “not to see
corruption”, “BROUGHT BACK FROM THE DEAD: OUR GREAT SHEPHERD”.
Liturgy
Antiphonary
Prelector,
With reference to “THAT
DAY”, “BONE-DAY”,
we confess …
Women and
children, say,
“That which
remained”, “the body of Jesus”, “was BURIED”, “in the earth”, “in the HEART of
the earth”, the “Pit” and “Deep”.
All men, say,
“THAT SELFSAME,
OF SUBSTANCE, DAY-of-BONES …
Women and
children, say,
“… it being
day-of-atonement for you to make reconciliation …
All men, say,
“… an OFFERING-MADE-BY-FIRE BEFORE THE LORD YOUR GOD.”
Women and
children, say,
“Ye shall burn it
with fire …” “that his soul shall not be left in hell or His flesh shall see
corruption.”
All men, say,
“My bones are pierced in Me … my bones are burned with
heat.”
Women and
children, say,
“Strong pieces of
brass are his bones”, “holding to the Head”, “His bones altogether shall not be
broken or severed.”
All men, say,
“The God of Peace BROUGHT from the dead again that Great
Shepherd our Lord Jesus” …
In unison, say,
“CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE, CHRIST THE BONE” …
All the
Congregation, answer,
Amen!
Prelector:
… and confirm,
“Christ is the SUBSTANCE
and BONE”, “For if JESUS having entered into his own Rest had given them Rest,
there therefore for the People of God remains FEAST-OF-SABBATHS’-rest.”
The Preparation of the passover?
John 19:14 “it
was the preparation-day of the passover and the sixth hour” and therefore
sunrise Jewish time the beginning of the ‘first hour’, “when he says, Behold
your King!”
Yes, ‘passover-day’-
“when they KILLED the passover”, had been over, before, Joseph had arrived on
the scene, “As soon as evening had arrived on that Festival-Sabbath.” Mark 15:42 John 19:31,38.
And no less than
12 hours BEFORE Joseph had arrived on the scene after that ‘Preparation day for the Passover
Festival-Sabbath’, Pilate its morning “the sixth hour”, sunrise,
“delivered Him to them …”, having said to them, “Behold your King! … the
beginning of the ‘first hour’, ‘Jewish time’.
At this point in
time of day, Jesus’ ‘trial’ had been going on since “early” [‘prohï’] before
sunrise, first, until the first cock crow before the high priests —John 18:27
Mark 15:15, 18, 20c Matthew 27:26, 29d, 31c Luke 23:24, 25b, 26a— and from
there, to before Pilate in front of his palace until sunrise and the last
cock-crow “the sixth hour” —Luke 22:61c,
Mark 15:1 Matthew 27:1,2 Luke 22:53b,54 John 18:28—, when “he delivered Him to
them …”, having said to them, “Behold your King! And they led Him away to be
crucified.”
Therefore,
FROM
Mark 15:42 John 19:31,38 Luke 23:50,
“… came Joseph …
it having had become evening already since it was The Preparation … The
Preparation that is The Fore-Sabbath … because THAT DAY was great day sabbath” …
UNTIL
Luke 23:54 John 19:42
“… THAT DAY
mid-afternoon towards the Sabbath … by the time of the Jews’ preparations …”
UNTIL
Luke 23:56b
“… the women began
to rest the Sabbath …”
… it has been BURIAL-day,
all day long, night, and, then, day— the passover’s, “great day of sabbath”.
‘Friday’ was that
‘sabbath’ called “Feast of Unleavened Bread”, the first one of “the two festival Sabbaths … between …”
which “a seventh-day Sabbath fell”.
Dennis Neufeldt, “If a seventh-day
Sabbath fell between the two festival Sabbaths” viz., the two ‘sabbaths’ of
the first and the seventh Days of Unleavened Bread.
Dennis Neufeld:
Harken back to the
description of the Passover in Exodus 12. God never gives any instructions or
does anything without there being some lesson involved for His people. If the
description and practice of Passover and Unleavened Bread as described in the
Old Testament is the symbol of what would take place in order to free the world
from sin then would God through Jesus not follow exactly the same scenario to
the letter? Every element in the description of the Passover is followed
to the letter in the events surrounding the crucifixion of Jesus.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Amen!
Dennis Neufeld:
However, not
necessarily as it would appear in the Gospel accounts.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
On the contrary!
As the passover appears in the Gospel’s accounts in the Anti-Type “Our
Passover”, so was every element surrounding the events of the Crucifixion,
Burial and Resurrection of Jesus “necessarily
followed”— having virtually to the letter been prophesied in the type.
Dennis Neufeld:
We know from
Scripture that Jesus, as the Passover lamb, was killed on the eve of Passover
on the 14th day of the 7th month. This day had to be a Preparation day for a
Festival Sabbath-the
Passover.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Just now we won’t
know where we are, on planet earth on passover or in heaven on judgment-day!
Yes, Jesus was
killed on passover “the ninth hour” 3 p.m. “on the 14th day” … of the __First__
Month Abib (Nisan) … not “… the 7th month”.
I accept it is just an oversight.
Good!
Then yes, “This day had to be a Preparation day for a
Festival Sabbath-the Passover.”
Perfect!
“…Preparation day for …” and …
“BEFORE the Feast-of-passover”,
‘PPO tehs heortehs tou pascha’ its
NIGHT: John 13:1,
30 1Corinthians 11:23 John 18:28; 19:14
UNTIL
DAY its “ninth
hour” 3 p.m.: Matthew 27:50,56 Luke 23:44-49 Mark 15:37-41
AND
its afternoon
after, “desolated”, “left alone”, “forsaken”
UNTIL
SUNSET: before
when COMMENCED the “Festival Sabbath-the
Passover”.
The “Festival Sabbath-the Passover”…
FROM
SUNSET beginning
its NIGHT: Mark 15:42 John 19:31,38 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50
UNTIL
DAY “late”, ‘opse’,
its “mid-afternoon”, ‘tehi epiphohskousehi’ 3 p.m.: John 19:42 Luke 23:54
UNTIL BEFORE SUNSET when
after sunset COMMENCED
“the Sabbath according to the Fourth Commandment” Luke 23:56b.
Dennis Neufeld:
Then the chief
priests, the scribes, and the elders of the people assembled at the palace of
the high priest, who was called Caiaphas, and plotted to take Jesus by trickery
and kill Him. But they said, “Not during the feast, lest there be an uproar
among the people.” Matt. 26:3-5
The chief priests
and the scribes could not take the chance of putting Jesus to death on the
Passover for fear of an uprising by the people. (Mk 14:1-2) His death would
have to be accomplished prior to the Passover.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Yes, and, no.
Seen in sequence
of events and days …
1)
… from TWO days BEFORE “His death” …
“Matt. 26:3-5”,
“Ye know that
after two days is the passover and the Son of Man to be CRUCIFIED IS BETRAYED” …
Jesus telling his disciples on ‘Tuesday’ about ‘Thursday’.
Seen in sequence
of events and days …
2)
… from the day BEFORE “His death” …
“Mark 14:1-2”,
“After two days
was the Feast of the ‘Passover-of-Unleavened-Bread”
(eaten). “The high priests [Annas and Caiaphas] sought how they might take Him
by craft and put Him to death … BUT, said they, NOT ON the FEAST-day”, “Mk 14:1-2” … the connivers plotting
among themselves with the view to killing Jesus before the Feast. They ONLY HAD, “the day before the Feast” John
13:1, “the Preparation of the passover” John 19:14, “the day it always had been
that they should kill the passover” Luke 22:7 Mark 14:12.
The chief priests
and the scribes could not for fear of an uprising put Jesus to death on the
Passover’s FEAST-day for eating unleavened bread. “His death would have to be accomplished ___prior___ to the FEAST.” (Emphasis GE)
Seen in sequence
of events and days …
3)
… from the day OF “His death” …
John 13:1,30;
18:28; 19:14; 1Corinthians 11:23 …
Because “His death would have to be accomplished prior to the FEAST”, the Jews – unknowingly
– would kill Jesus on the proper day
for sacrificing the passover lamb— the fourteenth day of the First Month and the
day “before the Feast-day” John 13:1.
If Jesus was
delivered crucified and died
“…the day they
as always had to KILL the passover
and REMOVE
LEAVEN on” – Abib 14, Luke
22:7 Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17, Leviticus 23:15b 1Corinthians 11:23 John 13:1,30;
18:28; 19:14 –
– then, when
“Pilate delivered Him over to them to be crucified” and they crucified Him and
He “the ninth hour”, died, was “The
Preparation-of-the-Passover”, the Fifth
Day of the week (‘Thursday’) and Abib 14,
“the first, first day” of the
passover. Leviticus 23:15a.
And then the day
AFTER “The Preparation-of-the-Passover”, was “The Preparation which is The Fore-Sabbath” AND, “that day (which)
because great day of sabbath, was” “The FEAST of Unleavened Bread”, Abib 15— the Sixth Day of the week,
‘Friday’.
Therefore the Fifth Day of the week – ‘Thursday’ –,
was “the Preparation of the passover”
on which “Pilate had delivered Him over to them to be crucified” and they
crucified Him and He “the ninth hour”, Abib 14, “according to the Scriptures,
died for our sins.” 1Corinthians 15:3b. The Jews ONLY HAD, “the day before the
Feast” John 13:1, “the Preparation of the passover” John 19:14, “the day it
always had been that they should kill the passover” Luke 22:7 Mark 14:12
because the next day, the Sixth Day – ‘Friday’ – would be “the Feast”.
Seen in sequence
of events and days …
4)
… from the day AFTER “His death” …
Mark 15:42 to Luke
23:54-56a …
One day after “His death”, “It was The Preparation
which is the Fore-Sabbath”, ‘Friday’. The day of “His death” therefore, must have been the day before “the
Fore-Sabbath day”, namely “the Preparation of the Passover” and “the day they
had to kill the Passover on”.
“The Feast”
was the “SUBSTANCE- or BONE-day”, “according to the Scriptures”, Abib
15— in the year of our Lord’s death, “The Preparation that is The
Fore-Sabbath”, the Sixth Day of
the week [‘Friday’]
Mark 15:42 John
19:31 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50.
Naturally the Fifth Day of the week (‘Thursday’), was
“the Preparation of the passover” and
its “very first day” on which “Pilate had delivered Him over to them to be
crucified” and they crucified Him and He “the ninth hour”, Abib 14, “according
to the Scriptures, died for our sins” “all leaven removed” from “the House of
the Living”. 1Corinthians 15:3b.
If “The Feast” had
been “The Preparation that is The Fore-Sabbath” – the Sixth Day of the week [‘Friday’] – Mark 15:42 John 19:31
Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50— Abib 15 “The Feast” and
“FILLING-IN-SUBSTANCE-EATING-day”— “no bone” or ‘leg’ of time behind or before
“severed or broken” from another but “brought with”, “together”, “out”—
it bound together
the foregoing “day
they killed the passover”,
and,
the following day the
day of the “First Sheaf OFFERING” that was “waved BEFORE THE LORD” IN RESURRECTION-LIFE
OF CHRIST “on the Sabbath Day” and God “rested Him up again” Isaiah 57:15 and
let Him “ride upon the high places of the earth because He called the Sabbath a
delight, the holy of the LORD, and honourable” Isaiah 58:13. While all men
deemed it despicable and preferred the day of the lord Sun to “The Lord’s Day”.
Seen in sequence
of events and days …
5)
… from TWO days AFTER “His death” …
Matthew 28:1-4 …
Jesus had to
resurrect from the dead on the Seventh Day Sabbath “God thus concerning did
speak”, “by the prophets in the past and, in these last days by the Son.”
“The THIRD day according to the Scriptures” therefore, “late on the
Sabbath mid-afternoon there was a great earthquake”, that marked both day
and time and event, of Christ’s Resurrection.
Seen in sequence
of events and days …
6)
… in retrospect “SINCE the third day”, SINCE “they always killed the passover”
…
If “Today _ON_ the First Day of the week is the
third day SINCE these things
[when] the chief priests and our rulers condemned Him to death and they have
crucified Him happened”,
then
“the Sabbath” before “on the First Day of
the week”, is the second day “SINCE these things [when] the chief
priests and our rulers condemned Him to death and they have crucified Him,
happened”;
and then
“The Preparation
that is The Fore-Sabbath”,
is the first day “SINCE these things [when] the chief priests and our rulers
condemned Him to death and they have crucified Him, happened”;
and
then
“The Preparation
of the passover” before “The Preparation that is the Fore-Sabbath”— the Fifth
Day of the week— is, the, day, that,
“the chief priests and our rulers condemned Him to death and crucified Him”,
and He, died.
Thus,
“ON the First Day of the week the
third day SINCE these things” is
Abib 17;
and
“the Sabbath” before “on the First Day of
the week”, is Abib 16;
and
“The Preparation
that is The Fore-Sabbath”,
is Abib 15;
and
“The Preparation
of the passover” before “The Preparation that is the Fore-Sabbath”,
is Abib 14.
Which really, all,
and altogether, only is “reasonable”, simple, factual, true, and above all,
BIBLICAL.
Dennis Neufeld:
Would it be
reasonable for the practicing Jews who wrote the Gospels to say that Jesus did
not know or seem to understand the sequence of events that had to take place
for the Passover Lamb (Christ Himself) to be killed at the proper time?
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
The men “who wrote the Gospels” most definitely
were NOT “the
practicing Jews” … Neufeld again “reasoning”,
as were it fact!
Dennis Neufeld:
Jesus was quite
obviously familiar with the Scriptures in a way no one of His day (or ours)
could match. Did Jesus not realize that He would not be eating the Passover
meal with His disciples and that He would be the Passover lamb? (He ate the
Last Supper with them on Tuesday evening.)
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
First you state
fact, spot on, saying,
“Did Jesus not realize that He would not be
eating the Passover meal with His disciples and that He would be the Passover
lamb?”
Then you spoil the
truth with a silly assumption again, saying,
“He ate the Last Supper with them on Tuesday
evening.”
But I realise the
depth and therefore the difficulty of “this
dichotomy”, that it indeed may be due to a vastly “different perspective looking at the same event”.
I mean, Jesus did
not physically eat “at the table” on “that night”— not as much as one morsel of
bread or drop of the wine that “He gave to them, and said, This is my body …
this is my blood” despite “I with desire desired to”! But He “IN HIS SPIRIT”,
ate, and was, that Bread and that Wine of Life the “cup” of which its
SUFFERING, He prayed God NOT to let pass from before Him, but to let it BE,
HIS, PASSOVER— The Passover-of-YAHWEH’S, “Our Passover’s!
So He did not eat
IN THAT He ate, and Himself, was, the Passover BEING EATEN AND DRUNK FROM “this
mine hour” and “the hour of evil men” and of “the Kingdom of My Father” and of
“the kingdom of darkness” in the Conflict of the Ages: AT ONCE FOR FINAL AND
FOREVERMORE.
From which “Great
Day of Almighty God”, “Christ rose from the dead the third day”, “made Christ
and Lord”: “Lord-of-the-Sabbath-Day”. “And God the Seventh Day from all his
works RESTED” “in heavenly places of Glory and Majesty-on-High.”
Dennis Neufeld:
Did He really not
understand the significance of the timing of events of Passover and His role in
them? Did the disciples not know about the order in which the Passover and
Feast of Unleavened Bread must take place (according to the Law in Exodus 12?)
It seems unreasonable to think that this could be the case.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
O yes they, like
Jesus, knew every ‘technicality’ “of the
timing of events of Passover”, but only He, knew and understood and
willingly, obediently and DETERMINED, entered upon ‘PASCHA’–ACTIVE SUFFERING,
and engaged in
Dennis Neufeld:
On the fourteenth
day of the first month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. And on the fifteenth
day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven
days you must eat unleavened bread. Lev. 23: 5-6.
Now on the first
day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying to
Him, “Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover.” Matt.26:17
Now on the first
day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover lamb, His disciples said
to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare, that You may eat the
Passover?” Mark 14:12
When the first day
of Unleavened Bread came the Passover lamb had already been slain and the
Passover meal had already been eaten. Either these writers had
not studied the Scriptures well enough to understand the sequence of events
pertaining to the Passover, which is highly unlikely, or someone changed what
they said to fit an alternative understanding. This seems more than likely when
you read these three passages together.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Not if you read
careful.
You will notice
that in no mention in the Gospels of the Last Supper is it stated in the
Indicative, that ‘Jesus ate’. Instead you will see that in every mention in the
Gospels of the Last Supper is it stated in the Conjunctive or Subjunctive or
suppositional Infinitive, that Jesus “would” eat, “might” eat, “may PREPARE TO”
eat. For with THIS, the Last Supper, ‘prepares for’ Christ’s entering into the
Passover-of-Yahweh, “that night”, from, “When evening had come” and “He came
and sat with the twelve”, and “went out” “and it was night” and crossed “the
Dark River” into “the Wine-Press” and “Olive-Press” of bitterness, gall, blood
and darkness, until “that night that He was betrayed” “came the morning”, and
his active Suffering the dying of the death of death “passed over” into his
passive Suffering the dying of the death of death “when came their day”, the
day and “hour of wicked men and the power of darkness”, and “they, took Him”, and
“they, led Him away”, and “they, crucified Him”, until came “the sixth hour and
there was darkness over all the land”— the darkness of “the plague that was
upon Him”, “THREE DAYS, THICK DARKNESS” that He would “not move”, but would BE
moved about by all forces of man and evil and hell, until _HE_ again by the
final suffering of dying the death of death, “cried with a loud Voice”,
“GIVING” by very last ACT: “the spirit”, “into thy hands”— the hands of his
Father, with single WORD, “FINISHED”, He “passing through”, EXITING “PASCHA”-
“SUFFERING”. “And everybody that came to see THAT SIGHT, RETURNED”— So that He
was “FORSAKEN BY ALL” and “left ALONE” --- AS BEGAN HIS EXALTATION EVEN IN
DEATH … “For God suffered NOT his soul to be left in hell, nor his flesh to see
corruption.” But He was buried by the rich, with The Rich … in the riches of
God’s Hovering-over Presence in the Ark of the Testimony … until “IN THE FULL
FELLOWSHIP OF THE TRINITY” (Schilder), “Christ was raised from the dead by the
Glory of the Father” and He “by the Spirit of Holiness declared Him: The Son of
God!”
Dennis Neufeld:
On the next day,
which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered
together to Pilate, saying, “Sir, we remember, while he was still alive, how
that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise.’ Therefore command
that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come
by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the
dead.’” Matt 27:62-64.
On the surface it
seems quite curious that Matthew would use the language that he did in
describing the day that followed the Preparation Day. To a Jew the
7th-day Sabbath was the most important day of the week, and held a very special
place and had a very special purpose. Feast days were a ‘type’ of
sabbath, but they were not ‘The Sabbath’. If Matthew was speaking of ‘The
Sabbath’ would he not have called it just that? His use of the
phrase “On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation . .
.“ indicates that the day in question was NOT the weekly Sabbath but
another kind, a Feast Sabbath.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Admitted, “it might seem curious that Matthew would use
the language that he did in describing the day that followed the Preparation
Day.” And it might seem even more curious, considering Matthew the writer
was a Jew himself.
But what is
‘seeming’ in this instance, is not, that “To
a Jew … (f)east days were a ‘type’ of sabbath … not ‘The Sabbath’”,
or, that Matthew’s “use of the
phrase “…the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation . . .”
indicates that the day in question was NOT the weekly Sabbath but another kind,
a Feast Sabbath.”
Rather, why
Matthew said, “the next day, which
followed the Day of Preparation” and not, ‘the Sabbath’ should be ascribed
directly to Matthew’s respect and regard – not so much as a Jew, but exactly as
a Christian –, for God’s Sabbath, and that he clearly could see what Christ’s
resurrection meant for the Sabbath— “understand(ing)
the sequence of events that had to take place for the Passover Lamb (Christ
Himself) to be killed at the proper time …”. AND – it must be added –, understanding
the sequence of events that had to take place for Christ at the proper time to RISE
from the dead!
To understand, one
must go to Matthew 28:5, and take to heart these words, “the angel EXPLAINING
to the women, told them …” ‘apokritheis eipen tais gunaiksin’.
Now it is apparent
just WHAT the angel “informed” the women on— things they could never themselves
have found out or understand and which they were not able to first hand have
experienced!
I say it is easy to
see what it was that the angel “reported” to and “informed” the women about. He
“summed up” for them and “concluded”, “indicating” to them, from what verses 1
to 4 of the 28th chapter of Matthew derived, and to what these verses related. The
angel gave “feed-back”— ‘APO-kritheis’, to the women. Like one has to “ANSWER
in judgment”— ‘apo-KRITHEIS’ from ‘krinein’, ‘to judge’.
Why make such a
fuss about the Greek word? The KJV simply says, “answered”?
In Luke, the
angels “before them, said…”, ‘eipan pros autas’;
In John, the
angels “say”, to Mary, “legousin autehi”; actually they don’t answer Mary; they
“ask her”;
In Mark the angel
“tells them, Don’t be afraid”.
Only Matthew
employs the two words, “tell” or “say”- ‘eipen’, AND, “answer / explain / give
account”- ‘apokritheis’! So it’s Matthew who makes a fuss about the word! Let
us LISTEN to what the angel “accounted to the women”; not shrug it off as of no
“CONSEQUENCE”!
It is possible
what the angel of Matthew 28:5a “concluded” and made the women attentive to.
Just compare the Gospel accounts at the “sequence
and events” recorded in each!
It is strikingly
obvious WHAT the Matthew angel “INFORMED” the women on which no other angel or
angels “told” them about. The “sequence
and events” that Matthew’s angel in the end “CONCLUDED” on, are the “sequence and events” that are not in any
other Gospel. That is how simple it is to determine where “the angel” is
“informing the women” about some things OTHER than they already knew.
Just WHERE in
Matthew does one find that which is not to be found in the other Gospels? Where “the angel”, is “EXPLAINING to the
women…”
Matthew 27:
“51 And behold,
the veil of the temple was rent …
and the graves
were opened … and appeared unto many. … 60 … and (Joseph) departed …
62 Now after all
their preparations the next morning
… came together
unto Pilate … 65 said… make the
sepulchre as sure as can! 66 So they went and made the sepulchre SURE, SEALING THE STONE AND SETTING A WATCH …
28:1__BUT, DESPITE__ [‘de’] IN THE END [‘opse’]
SABBATH’S mid-afternoon [‘sabbatohn tehi
epiphohskousehi’] …
there was a GREAT EARTHQUAKE [‘seismos egeneto megas’]
…
because the
angel of the Lord descending from heaven, approaching the grave, cast away the
stone and sat on it. And the guard for fright at his appearance enwrapped in
lightning white as snow, fell down convulsing like one dying …
… EXPLAINED the angel while he assured
the women, Don’t you fear though! Because I know … I know that you are looking
for Jesus. He is not here.”
Therefore Matthew
the Christian Jew places the mention of the Sabbath right in the climactic
centre of “sequence and events” that
led up to Christ’s Resurrection … from … the dead … and from transgression and
exploitation for selfish advantage like the high priests and Pharisees had no
scruples about.
By having been
“MADE” the Day of Christ’s Resurrection, the Sabbath received NEW origin [not
an overhaul]; and after having been given that part in God’s Glory in Christ, it
was invested with NEW interest worthy its NEW title of “The Lord’s Day”— “a
remaining valid Sabbath of rest for the People of God” of which Jesus Christ is
“the Lord” and “The Substance ministered”.
Dennis Neufeld:
Also, no Pharisee
or priest would have been caught dead going to petition a hated Roman enemy,
Pilate, for anything on “The Sabbath.” Their duty to the Sabbath was too
important a religious requirement for them to do so.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
O yea? I’m not so sure!
Their duty to the
Law was too important a religious requirement for them to murder an innocent
doing only good Man? O yes, “Not on the Feast”, said they, the hypocrites! But
little did they realise GOD WAS FORCING THEM TO OBEY their most important
religious requirement according to “The Feast”! For this was GOD, FULFILLING
THE LAW IN CHRIST, and their, only time of their lives that they truly “kept
passover”!
And what about the
Jews who had an unpretentious loyal Jew crucified on “the Preparation of the
passover” KNOWING FULL WELL that that Victim of their madness had to remain on
the Roman cross of shame on the most holy day on their religious calendar … and
after, until his carcase rots off?!
What an
embarrassment for those Jews when suddenly after the sun had set and it “had
become evening already” and time for their passover feast meal, they came to
their senses and realised, that “King of the Jews” is still hanging there, right
in front of the open city gates straight within sight of the sanctuary’s
feasting crowd! A humiliating reminder of their subjection to the hated Roman
suppressor!
Where is their
pride as they “begged Pilate” that the crosses be taken away in whatever cruel
way, “BECAUSE THAT DAY WAS GREAT DAY SABBATH” and Passover-Feast?! Ah! – that
disgrace removed and thrown into the rubbish pit – now we can go celebrate and
show the Romans! the Jews thought.
For little knew
they “After these things, Joseph went to Pilate and asked him for Jesus’ body.
The high priests
and Pharisees DID NOT KNOW that Joseph obtained the body or that he buried
Jesus. They DID NOT KNOW because Joseph asked Pilate “SECRETLY”, and “because
he feared the Jews”, that they definitely would have prevented him to bury
Jesus.
NO ONE than Joseph
knew that he intended to bury Jesus, except “Nicodemus who arrived with
precious myrrh” and helped Joseph with “PREPARING the body” FOR later on to be
“laid in the tomb” and be “closed” within it, and for Joseph and the women who
followed behind in the procession to the grave “that day afternoon toward the
Sabbath”, to “return to home and do their preparations of spices”, and also for
the Sabbath, of course, and to “rest on the Sabbath” after— “according to the
Law”.
Now it is “the
morning [‘epaurion’] after …” THESE, THEIR, “… preparations of the Jews” on
‘Friday’ “afternoon”, that Matthew is referring to in Matthew 27:61.
Matthew writes the
way he does, with a purpose— to EMPHASISE CONTINGENCY. IN SPITE OF the Jews’
and Romans’ concerted effort to PREVENT that Jesus would get out of his grave, He
notwithstanding DID rise from the dead and DID “come forth out” of the Pit to
prove God’s WORD, sure and fast, even to the letter and day and date and time of
his LORDLY TRIUMPH “ON THE THIRD DAY” … “fulfilled, SABBATH’S-time
mid-afternoon” … as according to the witness of the Jews themselves, “that
deceiver said while He was alive, After three days I will rise again.”
“That deceiver …”
to the Jews; “I-AM-The-Truth … The Resurrection … and … LIFE” to the faithful!
In fact,
“I-AM-The-Truth, The Resurrection and LIFE” “On the Sabbath Day”, “ACCORDING TO
THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS DECLARED BY RESURRECTION: THE SON OF GOD WITH POWER…” “…THE
THIRD DAY according to the Scriptures”— that “third day according to the
Scriptures”, “the day The Seventh Day is Sabbath of the LORD your GOD”.
Dennis Neufeld:
… No Pharisee or
priest would have been caught dead going to petition a hated Roman enemy,
Pilate, for anything on “The Sabbath.” Their duty to the Sabbath was too
important a religious requirement for them to do so. But this is not the case
for a Feast day which was not a ‘real’ sabbath. The Law of Moses would
not have been broken by their going to see Pilate on the first day of the Feast
of Unleavened Bread.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
For their hate of
the Roman enemy the Pharisees and priests would be caught dead rather than with
the embarrassing bodies left of the crosses over their passover “great day
sabbath-of-feast”! The Jews did not worry about it being a sabbath day of
whatever kind, as we saw in our previous discourse. They only cared for their national
pride. They were real hypocrites that did everything they did to be seen doing
it or to be seen not doing it. They were full blooded religionists and
LEGALISTS. And here, Dennis Neufeld has joined them in their righteousness of
works. I warned you about this, Dennis Neufeld, days ago! And we shall soon see
just how far you have progressed hand in hand with the Jews on your path of
legalism in defence of a Wednesday crucifixion.
I said the Jews
were real hypocrites that did everything they did to be seen doing it or to be
seen not doing it. To illustrate,
According to John
18 :28, the Jews “led Jesus from Caiaphas to the hall of judgment” in Pilate’s
house or palace. It was Abib 14, for the Jews “the day they had to kill the
passover” Exodus 12:6 John 13:1.
“It was early! But
they themselves did NOT GO IN … lest they get defiled; but they stayed outside
SO THAT THEY COULD EAT their passover meal” … “in that night” after Exodus
12:8!
“That night” it
would be “the Feast” and the first of the seven days that they would have to
eat unleavened bread. “In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye
shall do no secular work on it” Leviticus 23:6,7. Here is why the Jews the
morning before refused to go into Pilates house. “That night” it would be “the
Feast-
SABBATH”, won’t it?
It would! Leviticus 23:11,15,16.
So,
“The Jews
therefore –
shocked to their
senses – “BECAUSE
it HAD BECOME
[Ingressive Aorist ‘ehn’]
“the Preparation …
and evening had come already ...
John 19:31a Mark
15:42a,
– realised –
“… THAT THE BODIES
SHOULD NOT REMAIN ON THE CROSS ON THE SABBATH …”
“… BECAUSE THAT SABBATH WAS GREAT DAY
SABBATH”, OF PASSOVER!
The sunset and
falling dusk reminded the Jews of the passover meal that night! But those
crosses and that imposter king watching as they eat? All religious fear
vanished, for sheer Jewish hypocrisy. To Pilate! Forthwith! And IN they went, where
the morning before they would not dare! It must have taken them a while in Pilate
the pagan’s sanctuary – “hall of judgment”; but they got what they wanted, not
that it bothered them the least it meant hastened death by cruellest method, unimaginable.
Your holy Jews,
Dennis Neufeld, who “would have been
caught dead going to petition a hated Roman enemy, Pilate, for anything on “The
Sabbath.””
The same Jews,
Dennis Neufeld, we have seen before in this discussion, for whom “the Sabbath was too important a religious
requirement for them to secure a grave on!
WHAT WOULD THEY
CARE LESS, but it is not a case for a
Feast day which was not a ‘real’ sabbath?! They would BRAKE the Law by any
means and manner be it Moses’ or God’s Law JUST TO PROVE JESUS is not the Son
of Man or the Son of God. They hated Him so much. That is legalism for you,
Dennis Neufeld, and the arguments and convictions and motivations of, LEGALISM—
employed in the service of the Wednesday crucifixion DOGMA.
THE IRONY THOUGH,
is, that all the way every act and event and sequence and time and day, had
been PREDETERMINED BY GOD … even the doers of those deeds … yea, even the names
of some of both doers and events.
And still Dennis
Neufeld is going to conclude that Gerhard Ebersöhn believes and teaches a
Friday crucifixion and a Sunday resurrection? I would love to find out.
RR:
Oh, I KNOW that
Dennis read your 'stuff' and I did too. Why, because we both talked about each
of your posts and what we both thought about them. But that does not mean that
we either understood it or agree with what you wrote, as most of it I found to
be nothing but gibberish. This could be your problem with not understanding
what Dennis said.
I have a serious
problem when someone writes as much as you do without actually saying anything.
I would throw you out of my office for not getting to the bottom line---ever.
Can you actually give us your bottom line on this ONE issue in ONE simple
paragraph? If so, please do.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
"Bottomline"
-- when a young boy I got it on my bottomline in the headmaster's
"office". You think you scared me? I’m used to it.
I am not now
stating my view as such; I am commenting on and criticising Neufeld's dogma.
Do you want to
tell me the two of you 'read' my comments?
Well, I recommend
both of you go back to junior class to learn to read, chum. Then after you have
learned to read, come tell oompie how the two of you through discussion, arrived
at the conclusion that oompie holds a Sunday resurrection and Friday crucifixion.
Where did you go
to school maatjie? Haven't they taught you to read?
Oh, a special
school?
Mmm, for special
kids ... I see. OK buddy, cheer up, go play now
Dennis Neufeld:
GE, Of course I
have read your posts, yet as RR points out you use a lot of words to say what
could be said in just a few. To try to digest and rebut all of your points
would take more time than I have, and would not change your mind in the least.
You come from a perspective and a position that I gave up years ago in favor of
a more simple truth. You feel that by inundating your reader with copious
amounts of dictation that they will be so impressed with your rhetoric that
they will automatically fall in line with what you believe. Maybe this works
for some, but not for either me or RR.
Could I refute
your 'findings'? Yes. Do I choose to do so? No. You are without doubt a
brilliant person, yet you seem to enjoy hearing your own voice. I have been a
teacher for a long time, and one of the things I have learned by instruction
and by experience is that whenever a student tries to overwhelm me with words
(either in writing or in a speech) I automatically understand they are just
trying to fill space and pull the wool over my eyes. The more complex an
argument the less likely it is true. They don't fool me, and neither do you.
The basic
principal of good teaching is: stand up, speak up, shut up. You get the first
two, but you don't know when to employ the last one.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
HOW would you
"refute my findings", sir, with respect, if you, do not even know
WHAT, my 'findings' or conclusions or 'BELIEF' is, although and despite it is
as clear as daylight for an HONEST AND SINCERE observer, that I, BELIEVE
Christ's "SABBATH'S"- Resurrection!
Dennis Neufeld,
try refute my finding, and refute YOURSELF!
Wake up man, and
show me JUST ONE instance of my "copious amounts of dictation" WRONG
OR FALSE OR OBSCURE!
Come on! Hit me on
the chin! Here! You see, right HERE! Come on!
HIT ME!!!!
For God's sake I
pray, do!
For God's Truth I
pray, DO!
For all honesty
and integrity, HIT ME!
But what do I get
'hit' with? Upper-lip rhetoric, senseless, aimless, baseless talking high holy
hogwash!
RR:
So GE, do you
actually believe that God forces people to do anything? If you do, then please
show me where this ever happened before. I have a problem with people who
believe God forces them to do anything like become converted as Paul said he
was. From my research, I have never found any place where God forced anyone to
do anything as that would remove the gift of choice we all have.
You also said that
the cross with Jesus on it was still up AFTER sunset. I do not agree with you
on this as that time according to God's time would be the NEXT day, a Sabbath,
it being the feast of unlevin bread or the first day of the Passover.
Clearly, Jesus was
placed in the tomb prior to sunset. Three days later, also prior to sunset,
Jesus rose from the grave. It's just that simple.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Rockroller, be
assured, I have no intentions or wish to roll you over, to remove you to this
side, or that. Man, for what I care about your conversion, you may roll
down-hill all the way to into the
ditch below
belowest.
However, I really
appreciate, I can see that you did read my stuff! Thank you very much!
Say you,
"You also said that the cross with Jesus on
it was still up AFTER sunset. I do not agree with you on this as that time
according to God's time would be the NEXT day, a Sabbath, it being the feast of
unlevin bread or the first day of the Passover."
Ah! Wonderful! YOU
DO SEE IT, I see! Praise and thanks to God!
EXACTLY, dear RR! Exactly.
O yes, you won’t
agree. I understand that perfectly. And have all the sympathy with that. You
see, it is exactly the road I walked on the road of my discovery of having been
FOOLED the most part of my life before and in my thirties!
And you know WHO
opened my eyes to the DECEPTION I lived in?
My DECEIVERS themselves! Yes, YOUR deceivers too! The TRANSLATORS! The wise guys – the high and mighty I have
since learned – they, opened my eyes with one thick of a koevoet, the stupids!
Read my story in
the introduction in the first book of my first book, here, http://www.biblestudents.co.za
‘Books’ on the left hand side, Book 1 / 1 ‘Crucifixion’.
RR:
Clearly, Jesus was
placed in the tomb prior to sunset. Three days later, also prior to sunset,
Jesus rose from the grave. It's just that simple.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Again, exactly,
dear Rocky! exactly!
But think here!
When did this day start,
and where do you find its beginning recorded in the Gospels?
Find the answer,
and find the KEY-TRUTH conditional for the right understanding of the
"three days"
THAT IS MY 'BOTTOM
LINE'!
No; I would rather
say the NAKED TRUTH stated in the precise definitive word that "There was
a great earthquake late on the Sabbath" in Matthew 28:1, is my 'bottom
line'.
Make my 'bottom
line' these two TRUTHS in one; still better.
Because then you
have two witnesses that will witness to a third day - the first of the
"three days" must have been involved.
One,
the third of the "three days": "On the Sabbath Day
mid-afternoon" back to
Two,
the "binding", "BONE day" of the "three days":
"THAT DAY The Preparation mid-afternoon towards the Sabbath Day",
back to
Three, the first day of the "three days", viz., "The
Preparation of the passover" mid-afternoon "the ninth hour".
In a nutshell, for
you, my brother, RR!
THE, “three days” of Christ’s last passover
… indicated and
demarcated by moment-of-event—
Three “mid-afternoons”—
3rd day …
“mid-afternoon”
“the third day”, “Sabbath”, “earthquake” and Resurrection Matthew 28:1;
2nd day …
“mid-afternoon”
“that day” / “bone-day”, “the Fore-Sabbath”, “rolled stone into the door of the
sepulchre” Mark 15:46;
1st day …
“the ninth hour”
mid-afternoon, “the Preparation of the passover”, “earthquake” Matthew 27:51,
“He surrendered the spirit” Luke 23:44.
Four “evenings” after sunset—
… fourth day …
evening / “dusk”
of “the First Day” John 20:1,
“after the
Sabbath”, Mark 16:1;
3rd day …
evening of “the
Sabbath” Matthew 28:1,
after “The
Preparation”, Luke 23:56b;
2nd day …
“evening” of “the
Preparation” = “the Fore-Sabbath”
= “great day of
sabbath” John 19:31 Mark 15:42,
after “the
Preparation of the Passover” John 19:14;
1st day …
“evening” of “the first day on which they had to kill
the passover” Luke 22:7,14 Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 John 13:1,30
1Corinthians 11:23.
Three “mornings” middle-of the day—
3rd day …
“morning” of “the
Sabbath” “after the Preparation” Matthew 27:61; 28:1
2nd day …
‘morning’ “early
night” of “that day … the Fore-Sabbath” “having come also Nicodemus bearing
mixture to him (Joseph) they took the body” [‘elthohn pros auton nuktos to
prohton’] John 19:39 Note: corrupted with addition, “to Jesus”!;
1st day …
“morning” “early”
Matthew 27:1 Mark 15:1 of “the Preparation of the passover the sixth hour and
he (Pilate) delivered Him over to them (the Jews)” Luke 24:20.
Now I would like
to SEE anyone do it shorter and or more complete!
RR:
I do not agree
here. Sealing the grave meant the whole time Jesus was in it, not just on that
third day. What good would it do sealing it on the third day IF someone could
steal the body prior to that third day? Let's use some common sense for a
change.[/QUOTE]
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Did the high
priests and Pharisees ask Pilate to secure the grave BEFORE Joseph had closed
it?!
No!
They asked
"the morning AFTER the Jews' preparations of the 'Friday' afternoon until
sunset before, that was immediately - without any break in between - after
Joseph had closed the grave with the stone— exact time STATED:
"mid-afternoon the Sabbath approaching" Luke 23:54 --- “the next
morning” they asked to have the already closed grave, secured. Matthew 27:62a.
The grave was secured,
at the earliest 3 hours of the Friday afternoon plus 12 hours of the Friday
night and Saturday morning plus anything to about another 3 hours of the
Saturday morning = +-15-18 hours AFTER Joseph had closed, it.
Therefore, it is
not correct that “Sealing the grave meant
the whole time Jesus was in it, not just on that third day”; and it is
correct that sealing the grave only “on the next morning after the Jews’
preparations”, meant Jesus was in it on that third day until He resurrected
“mid-afternoon” as well as on the day before from Luke 23:54 John 19:42
“mid-afternoon” until before Luke 23:56b. And of course the night in between.
Now “What good would it do sealing the grave on
the third day IF someone could steal the body prior to that third day?”
Well, “Let's use some common sense for a change”
– like the Jews thought they would, and the answer can only be, TO PREVENT IT
HAPPEN! But of course, as we all know, common sense failed everybody this time!
It didn’t happen and need not happen, because Jesus instead, rose from the dead
Himself.
RR:
Well excuse me!
Perhaps the words in Africa do not mean the same as they do in the
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
It "does not
compute" you human, because you do NOT NOT NOT "understand" it
is NOT NOT NOT my "stance that Jesus
was killed on Wed. and resurected on Saturday" for peat's and mud's
sake! Your humans’ constitution darem … Eish!
THE, “three days” of Christ’s last passover,
Old Testament names
and dates of, FULFILLED in the New Testament …
“Three days thick darkness … the Plague …”
1)
“The very first day remove leaven”, Abib 14 …
…
“evening” -BEGINNING of “the first day
on which they had TO kill the
passover” Luke 22:7,14 Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 John 13:1,30 1Corinthians
11:23.
…
middle of day, “early”
Matthew 27:1 Mark 15:1 of “the Preparation of the passover the sixth hour and
he (Pilate) delivered Him over to them (the Jews) to be crucified” Luke 24:20 “morning oblation”,
…
beginning ending …
“the ninth hour” mid-afternoon, “the
Preparation of the passover”, “earthquake” Matthew 27:51, “He surrendered the
spirit” Luke 23:44. “evening oblation”.
2)
“First day no leaven”, “BONE-day”, “Feast of Unleavend
Bread”, “sabbath”, “Abib 15”—
…
“evening” -BEGINNING of “the Preparation” = “evening” of “the Fore-Sabbath” =
“evening” of “great day of sabbath” John
19:31 Mark 15:42,
…
“early morning of night” –middle of
“that day … the Fore-Sabbath” “having come also Nicodemus bearing mixture to
him (Joseph) they took the body” [‘elthohn pros auton nuktos to prohton elabon to sohma’] John 19:39 Note: corrupted with
addition, “to Jesus”!;
…
beginning ending …
“by the time /
because of the Jews’ preparations … they laid Jesus there” John 19:42, “mid-afternoon that day / bone-day The
Preparation” Luke 23:54 “which is the Fore-Sabbath” Mark 15:42;
“rolled stone into the door of the sepulchre”
Mark 15:46c, “returned home” Matthew 27:60;
“the women
returned home … prepared” Luke 23:56a.
3)
“Wave First Sheaf Offering”, “cleansed sanctuary day”,
“day after [passover-] sabbath”, “first day COUNT ye!” “Abib 16”
…
(Evening when “they BEGAN to rest the
Sabbath” … significant fact in New Testament only!)
…
“morning” –middle of “the Sabbath”
“after the Preparation” Matthew 27:61; 28:1
…
beginning ending …
“mid-afternoon” “the third day”, “Sabbath”,
“earthquake” and Resurrection Matthew 28:1.
Fourth day of passover …
Evening / “dusk” -BEGINNING of “the
First Day” John 20:1,
“AFTER the Sabbath”, Mark 16:1 …
…
Morning –middle of “First Day of the week early _APPEARED_
to Mary” Mark 16:9
John 20:11-17;
…
beginning ending mid-afternoon…
“because toward
evening it is and has declined now the day” Luke 24:29.
Dennis Neufeld:
The fact that the
Pharisees mentioned Christ’s resurrection coming after three days indicates
that while they hated Jesus they knew who He was (John 3:2), and for that
reason they felt it needful to take precautions against the event that He might
actually come back to life. It is my personal belief that the chief priests and
Pharisees wanted guards at the tomb to kill Jesus if He made an attempt to
leave the tomb. Of course they couldn’t imagine how badly this strategy would
backfire.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Be careful that
you do not phrase it so ambiguously. The Pharisees mentioned Christ’s reference
to his resurrection “while He was alive”, long before when they made mention of
it before Pilate. The way you said it, Jesus would have spent three days after
that Sabbath in the grave. Just saying.
What the Jews
actually did say, amounts to the fact that that day when they asked Pilate to
have the grave sealed, IT WAS “THE THIRD”! In fact yes! “Command therefore that
the sepulchre be made sure until the third day” – ‘heohs tehs tritehs
hehmeras’.
Note several times
‘heohs’ meaning ‘as far as’x3; ‘to’x16; ‘till’x12; ‘up to’x1; ‘while’x6 = “_for_
the third day”, or, meaning “until the third day is over”.
This connotation
is strengthened by the Jews’ anxiousness to have the grave sealed while there
is still time— Sabbath or no Sabbath, it’s today that ‘third day’ he spoke of!
For “we remember that deceiver said, I will rise the third day (“After three
days” = “the third day”). Command THEREFORE”— without delay that the grave can
be secured in time! “Command because …” it is still the ‘third day’! “Or his
disciples may come in the night …” after this the third day He spoke of, and
find a grave conveniently open, and “… steal his body and say he rose from the
dead!” Therefore please, let us get the
grave secured! “Or the last error will be worse than the first.”
“So immediately
[that very ‘third day’] GOING, they made fast the grave.”
Dennis Neufeld:
Did Jesus know
when He was to die? Did Jesus recognize that He was to be the Passover Lamb,
sacrificed on the 14th day of the first month at twilight?
Well, He is the
one that gave the instructions to Moses about Passover that are recorded in
Ex.12, so I imagine that the answer to both of the above questions is YES
(sic).
For just as Jonah
was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son
of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt. 12:40.
So when Jesus said
this He KNEW that He would be dead by the time the Passover meal was to have
been eaten. So the meal that He and the disciples ate on the day before His
death WAS NOT THE PASSOVER. Just this fact makes it impossible for Jesus to be
resurrected on Sunday morning at sunrise, because whenever this meal was eaten
it was certainly before the beginning of the Passover and the Feast of
Unleavened Bread. Couple this with 3 days and 3 nights and if you still insist
that Jesus was crucified on Friday
Jesus was in the
heart of the earth 3 nights and 3 days according to His own words
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Yes! Jesus' words
were NOT: "in the grave", OR, "in the earth"; but, "in
the HEART of the earth" i.e., "HELL" and ALIVE "_AS_
the prophet
Jonas", in "hell", in "Jonas the prophet"!
If you wanna be
precise - and it is good -, BE PRECISE!
Dennis Neufeld:
I really appreciate
the simplicity of your analysis. It gives me a much clearer picture of what you
have proposed. This looks to me like you have helped me prove my point: that
Jesus was resurrected on 'day 3' in mid-afternoon (about 3 PM), which is as I
previously stated. Then 'on the first day of the week' 'while it was still
dark', right after sunset Jesus was met by Mary in front of the open tomb
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
You get ahead of
sequence and events!
You must keep
"event and sequence" - your own principle - together!
In John 20:1 Mary
– for the first time, “sees the STONE away from the grave” NOTHING ELSE,
because immediately “she RUNS …” back to the disciples!
Then Peter and
John go to see for themselves, and they “RETURN” none the wiser.
In the meantime
Mary MUST HAVE informed the other women because they, “deepest of morning of
night” just after midnight, “CARRYING THEIR SPICES”, arrive at the tomb. “They
see” what Mary MUST HAVE told them, that the STONE was moved away from the tomb;
but they knew not yet that the body was gone, otherwise they would not have
brought their spices with to salve the body. So, “They enter, and FIND: NOT,
the body”— discovery number two that night: THE GRAVE IS EMPTY!
Still it’s nowhere
near the time Jesus “appeared to Mary Magdalene first”!
Dennis Neufeld:
GE, Is it your
understanding that Jesus was the 'wave-sheaf offering' of Lev. 23?
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Dennis, please
READ my answers on your article?
Dennis Neufeld:
Speak to the
children of
The Wave Sheaf
Offering, according to the Law of Moses, took place during the Feast of
Unleavened Bread always on the day after a seventh-day Sabbath.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Who, exactly,
wrote that, “after a seventh-day Sabbath”?
Not Moses!
Dennis Neufeld:
The first day of
the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the day following the night of Passover) was
also a Sabbath, a high feast day.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Yes. But let us
get it right, The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread – starting the
EVENING following the DAY of passover’s “first, first day” … “when they killed
the passover”, “was … a Sabbath, a high
feast day.” Yes!
Dennis Neufeld:
Thus TWO Sabbaths.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Thus three
‘sabbaths’; the first and the seventh days they ate unleavened bread, plus the
weekly Sabbath anywhere in between them.
Dennis Neufeld:
This offering
celebrated the harvest by a priest waving a sheaf of barley before the Lord in
the
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
“This offering …”?
What do you mean? that it was a sacrifice?
Dennis Neufeld:
A responsible man
would lead a group of people to a specially prepared shock of barley growing
just outside the city wall. Just after the sun had set the man would ask the
crowd if the Sabbath was over, and then ask them (holding up a sickle) if he
should harvest the grain. They would shout ‘yes’ and he would cut the barley
shock. This harvesting of the barley was never done on a Sabbath as that would
be construed as work. It was done right after Sabbath on the First day of the
week. They would then take the barley shock back to the
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
HERE IT IS! That legalism
I predicted … “This harvesting of the
barley was never done on a Sabbath as that would be construed as work.”
Again, who wrote
this law? Not Moses!
But Moses wrote
other laws specifically for the Sabbath of the LORD GOD, mind you. Laws with
which God – through Moses – gave command for WORK to be done on the Sabbath.
WORK, as cutting one sheaf of barley, is WORK. Actually, much less work than
separating a big animal plus smaller animals and to bring them to the altar and
to cut the thing’s throat over a small brass grating; to skin it and cut out a
selected part of flesh and have a fire ready to roast it upon, catch up some of
its blood, etcetera what a job! … ON THE SABBATH. But o no, you cannot cut a
few barley stalks, bring it into the fore-court and wave it in front of the
veil …?! Weird!
NEVER TRUST A JEW
FOR YOUR FAITH! Not a non-believing Jew … and these days a Christian Jew even
less. Their commandments and traditions with regard to the First Sheaf Offering
are “of men”.
When God tells man
to rest on the Sabbath, that is man’s work for the Sabbath! God does not rest
in his place; man ought to DO it himself. To rest the Sabbath Day is man’s
duty. No wonder Luke used the Ingressive Aorist in 23:56b, the women “BEGAN,
TO, …” DO, something— “to rest”, ACT-UALLY.
No commandment of
God rests on man’s fulfilment of it requiring what amount of effort or no. If
God says “BRING IN the sheaf”, He means, “Go cut it, bind it, and bring it into
the Sanctuary and wave it before the most holy place where God’s Shekinah
hovers!” Away with the Jews’ legalistic restrictions which after all just make
of Christ’s lightly yoked follower, a heavy laden, and pulling before, slave. Ever
seen a follower whipped? No; those bare backed bent over forward sweating
bodies, they get the Law’s cat-o’-nine-tails! “That Great Shepherd” leads his
sheep; and when He wants any before Him, He carries it.
Another sophism of
the pharisaic Jews is that they demand the sheaf – in fact a whole shock – must
be reaped at night! While Jesus’ law was
that “night comes when NO ONE WORKS!” and Moses’ Law was that no sacrifice or
offering ever should be made in the night, but at its “APPOINTED TIMES”— in the
day!
Jesus would do the
NIGHT-SHIFT for us. You may bet your LIFE on it! He went out to engage the
enemy in hell in the kingdom of darkness, AND WON “THE KINGDOM OF MY FATHER”,
BACK! “THAT NIGHT”! HE, WORKED the salvation of man “in THAT NIGHT that must be
SOLEMNLY observed.” “In the sweat of Thy Face shalt Thou eat Thy Bread, TILL
THOU RETURN UNTO THE GROUND!” It speaks of Jesus.
So I spurn with
contempt the Jews’ haughty attitude towards the Law of Moses concerning the
harvesting and offering of the Wave-Sheaf.
The cutting as
such of the First Sheaf typified Jesus Christ, that his LIFE – as Isaiah said –
would be “CUT OFF”. Yes, but it takes the SAME “POWER I TAKE MY LIFE UP AGAIN”
with, “TO LAY MY LIFE DOWN” with! That is why BOTH reaping or cutting or
“bringing”, and offering or presenting by waving or lifting high or exalting the
First Sheaf, were ON THE SAME DAY IN ITS LIGHT— the same day of God’s POWER— “THE
POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION”— the same POWER in which “God the Seventh Day
RESTED”— the POWER which God “appointed” and “collated” in Christ’s “TIMES”
that He should rise from the dead “ON THE THIRD DAY”— “ON THE SABBATH DAY”—
“according to the Scriptures”!
But the Jews hated
the Messiah so much that they with the power and deception of their traditions
made sure the First Sheaf would never be exalted on the Sabbath of the LORD
GOD.
Some uninformed
sections of Christianity got beguiled by the Jews; but NOT all. Most informed
Christians know that this always on the First Day First Sheaf comes from
Christian heretics who claim that the Pharisees believed it. But the Pharisees
did NOT believe or teach it, but alleged that the Sadducees did. But no one has
ever seen that the Sadducees did. That is the shaky TRADITION the always on the
First Day First Sheaf myth, rests on. Some Christians think it is the
cornerstone of truth like they believe the LIE that Jesus rose from the dead on
the First Day of the week, is the cornerstone of all Christian truth and virtue.
Dennis Neufeld:
Jesus said to
her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but
go to My brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and you Father,
and to My God and your God.” John 20: 17
Mary Magdalene,
finally realizing with who she was speaking , was clinging to Jesus for dear
life. Jesus told her not to hold on tightly to Him for He had yet to go
to His Father. This dovetails beautifully with the Wave Sheaf
Offering. Christ is called the Firstfruits of those who sleep. (I Cor.
15:20). He was the Firstfruits of those who will eventually be
resurrected from the grave as He was. The reason that He did not want
Mary to cling to Him was that He was the real ‘Wave Sheaf Offering’ and had not
yet appeared, ‘Waved’, before the Father in Heaven. This would mean that Jesus
would have to have been raised from the grave before the Sabbath was over in
order follow the pattern of the Wave Sheaf offering. At the exact time
that the priest ‘waved’ the barley sheaf in front of the Alter in the temple
Jesus appeared before His father Later on that same day Jesus appeared to the
disciples in the upper room and said that they could touch Him and see that He
was real.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Above, Dennis
Neufeld wrote,
“This harvesting of the barley was never done
on a Sabbath as that would be construed as work. It was done right after
Sabbath on the First day of the week. They would then take the barley shock
back to the Temple where it would be waved before the Lord.”
Now he says,
“He was the Firstfruits of those who will
eventually be resurrected from the grave as He was.”
Does “resurrected … as He was” include the same
day “as He was resurrected”? Just like in comparing “as Jonas was”, it included
“as Jonas was three days and three nights”? When you say “as”, does it mean
‘not exactly as’, or, ‘as, but’, or, ‘as, excluding …’?
However … it
simply is not so that the Scriptures say, first sheaf ought to be “done right after Sabbath on the First day of
the week”. What ‘sabbath’ is being spoken of in Leviticus 23:11,15,16?
It is NOT “The
Sabbath” read of in verse 3,
“Six days shall
work be done, but the Seventh Day The Sabbath Day— Day-of-rest is an holy
convocation-day; ye shall do no work in it because it is The Sabbath Day of the
LORD in every household.”
The emphasis in
verse 3 is on
“The Sabbath Day
of the __LORD,__ in the first place;
… on “The Sabbath
Day of the LORD in __EVERY HOUSEHOLD,__ in the second place;
… on “The __
SEVENTH DAY,__ Sabbath”, in the third place …
… like in verse 38
“The Sabbath of the LORD The Seventh Day in every household” is The Sabbath
“BESIDE”, “the _feasts_ of the LORD”.
Because UNLIKE
“The Sabbath The Seventh Day of the LORD in every household”, the “feast-sabbaths”
are “proclaimed”, not by the LORD, but on command of the LORD by men, that “THESE”
sabbaths— “the Feasts of the LORD-sabbaths … YE, shall PROCLAIM, holy
convocations” … “IN THEIR SEASONS”— verse 3!
“YOU must proclaim”,
man, the Israelites
“you MUST
proclaim”, LAW; God COMMANDS
“you must
PRO-CLAIM”, calculate and legislate
“in / to /
according to”
“their / its”, intrinsic
own nature
“seasons”, natural
recurrence; differing incidence
… in other words, according
to VARYING laws of nature calculated ‘sabbaths’— in CONTRAST with GOD’S,
immutable incalculable inexplicable INDEPENDENT, Biblical and Divine, odd and
incomparable and UN-DERIVABLE, “SEVENTH, Day (of the week) Sabbath Day.
The context in
which reference is being made to “the sabbath after you have waved the sheaf”,
DEMANDS it speaks of NOT “the Seventh Day Sabbath _OF THE LORD_”, but, of that
‘sabbath’ that DEPENDED on the “proclamation”, by man, “according to its annual
seasons” RELATIVE to the MOVEMENTS of created, by nature fleeting, and TEMPORARY
because of its eschatological typology, circumstance and environment— earth,
sun and moon and Israel … and, SIN. The “feast-sabbath” was meant for an
ATONEMENT OF SIN. Never forget! Sin would be ABOLISHED in Christ, and therefore
it was a “feast-sabbath” that would be abolished “once and for all”, in Christ.
It therefore is
for certain that the “feast-sabbath” of passover is referred to in Leviticus
23:11,15,16, as that ‘feast-sabbath’ abolished by the EXALTATION of Christ –
like WAVING the sheaf before the LORD – THROUGH RESURRECTION “FROM THE DEAD”—
showing its temporariness “beside” several OTHER typical ‘sabbaths’. The
CONTEXT in Leviticus 23 excludes a FIXATION of the “feast-sabbath” of the
passover on the ESTABLISHED “SEVENTH Day Sabbath OF, the immovable and
unchangeable “LORD GOD”.
That the ‘sabbath’
of the passover FLOATED through the Sabbath- or Seventh Day-week, had
pro-leptic, pro-spective, pro-phetic, eschatological, typical, figurative,
INTENDED, divine meaning IN ITSELF, like everything else of the passover. The
IRREGULAR incurrence on the different days of the week ‘pointed to” the coming
of the Messiah “IN THE FULLNESS OF
TIME” and all
things will be made new to last forever.
In the
concurrence, confluence, coalition, colluding, merging and culminating climax
of all divine times and ages and epochs, and prophecies and promises, and types
and figures, and sacrifices and offerings “in
the twinkling of an eye” IN THE RESURRECTION of Christ Jesus from the dead
“ON THE SABBATH DAY”, all “these things” are become one-in-time, in the Seventh
Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD.
“If Jesus … in
these last days … had given them rest, God … speaking unto us … through the Son
… TODAY if you hear his Voice, harden not your heart … He – AFTER THESE THINGS
[which He did through Jesus] – would not speak of another day (of salvation
opportunity) … EXACTLY THEREFORE [‘ara’], a keeping of the Sabbath Day REMAINS
VALID [‘apo-leipetai’] for the [New Testament] People-of-God.”
Point made:
… the ‘sabbath’ in
Leviticus 23:11,15,16 was the moving ceremonial once a year ‘sabbath’ of the
passover and not the every Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD.
Dennis Neufeld:
GE: HERE IT IS!
That legalism I predicted …“This harvesting of the barley was never done on a Sabbath
as that would be construed as work.”
Now YOU didn't read correctly. I said it was AFTER the Sabbath that the barley
for the Wave Sheaf was cut, not ON the Sabbath; therefore no work was done on
the Sabbath.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Exactly! This is the
legalism of it. The very assumption “This
harvesting of the barley was never done on a Sabbath” for ‘proving’ the
First Sheaf was not offered on the Sabbath because
“that would be construed as work”, is,
the legalism!
God gave the
People WORK to do specifically for and on ‘sabbaths’— any and all, ‘sabbaths’.
It was the Jews who changed God’s Word into “no work”, into disallowing anything
“that would be construed as work”.
Not God or Moses did that! The first sheaf HAD to be reaped “on the day after”,
the passover “sabbath”, whether that day might fall on the weekly Sabbath or
not; and to reap just one sheaf is ‘construed as work’ by God as by Moses as by
the Israelites. Only thing is, it was not only ‘construed as work’; it was
COMMANDED AS WORK— by DIVINE command!
Dennis Neufeld:
Jesus rested in
the tomb on the Sabbath, and was resurrected before dark on the seventh-day
Sabbath that occurred during the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Yes; that was
Christ’s WORK, and the Father’s WORK and the Holy Spirit’s WORK : “BY THE
EXCEEDING GREATNESS OF HIS POWER”, scheduled for, and done on, God’s own
Seventh earthly Day Sabbath.
That – Christ’s
Resurrection “ON” it – was the creation of the New Testament Sabbath _Day_ and
what has upheld it ever since as “The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD”, “the
Lord’s Day”— the Sabbath _Day_ our Lord Jesus “is Lord of”— the ONLY Royal
_Day_ of His Majesty and of the Kingdom of God.
Dennis Neufeld:
An OFFERING is not a
SACRIFICE. In the case of Jesus He had already been made the Passover SACRIFICE
(not the Atonement).
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Christ’s passover
sacrifice, “in that God raised Christ from the dead”, had been the Atonement
that God had made for man
through Him, “once
for all”, final, forever, and, PERFECT!
In Christ’s Resurrection
his passover sacrifice became the only forever forgiveness of sin.
The passover
Scriptures both Old and New Testament, repeatedly and in different ways,
emphatically declare Jesus’ sacrifice AND Resurrection the “once for all”, “Atonement
made for sin”.
Jesus “Our
Passover” “made sacrifice of HIMSELF” and “offered before the LORD” his LIFE IN
ONE for the atonement and forgiveness of sins and reconciliation with God
forevermore, IN ONE AS ONE. To suggest Christ could sacrifice or offer his
blood or life without having had made perfect, final, full forgiveness,
atonement and reconciliation IN ONE AS ONE AT ONCE, is unthinkable for a
right-minded Christian.
But the
Seventh-day Adventists taunt God in his face, declaring, Jesus “had been made
the Passover SACRIFICE (not the Atonement).” It is NOT absurd; it is
blasphemous, belying God and Christ’s ONLY FOREVER sacrifice and offer made for
sin and for the FORGIVENESS and ATONEMENT and OBLITERATION of sin.
Yes though, “an OFFERING
is not a SACRIFICE”!
The ‘offering’ is
the presentation “before the LORD”, of the ‘sacrifice’ in its virtues, worth
and power.
Christ the First
Sheaf ‘offered’, or ‘presented’ his RESURRECTED, VICTORIOUS, LIFE “before the
LORD” God the Father, “ONCE FOR ALL”, “a SIN offering”, and “an ATONEMENT for
sin”. Jesus’, was the ONLY EVER sin
offering or sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin and reconciliation of and with
God, PAST, PRESENT, OR, FUTURE! God will NOT make another atonement in the
future; He is NOT busy making atonement now … blasphemous any such notion!
Earthly offerings
presented the sinners “life, in his blood” and in his death. They are therefore
become redundant, worthless, without virtue, and powerless in effect unto life,
but work death.
That is the
difference in themselves and in effect between the sacrifice and offering of
Christ IN HIS LIFE, and mortal sacrifices and their offering IN THEIR BLOOD.
(Poor Roman Catholics!)
Christ the First
Sheaf of the harvest’s blood is in his LIFE— his LIFE that also represents the
sinner’s life and blood, by which Christ wrought man’s salvation, atonement and
redemption by grace through faith— “before the LORD”.
NOTHING WHATSOEVER
and NO ONE WHOSOEVER REMAIN to be saved or atoned or reconciled. NOTHING
WHATSOEVER REMAINS to provide for salvation or atonement or reconciliation— or,
for redemption for that matter. “CHRIST IS THE _END_ OF THE LAW!”
SALVATION,
ATONEMENT AND REDEMPTION are, or rather, is, as one, by grace through faith in
both the Sacrifice and Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
But some people
make Christ’s offering of his LIFE, a sacrifice of blood to be made in future
for an atonement for sin. What monstrosity!
Dennis Neufeld:
The REPRESENTATION
of the Wave Sheaf OFFERING is given in thankfulness for God's bounty in the
FIRST of the two harvests that would take place; barley first, then the wheat.
The shock of barley presented to the Lord by the Priest in the
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
The representing
or representative presentation or offering of the Wave Sheaf, is made – by
Christ – rising from death by Resurrection from the dead, conquering the grave,
the pit, the realm of satan’s rule, the kingdom of darkness, ERECTING THE
KINGDOM OF GOD THEREIN, GIVING GLORY TO GOD, PUTTING HIM ON THE THRONE CROWNING
HIM WITH MAJESTY: A LAMB as if slaughtered __STANDING__!
Let the
Congregation in thankfulness for God's Bounty which He brought out from hell,
give thanks!
Lift up this Song
to the LORD, for He hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath He
thrown into the sea. The LORD is my Strength and Song, and He is become my
Salvation. He, my Mighty God, and I – says Christ – will prepare Him an
habitation; my Father’s God and I will exalt Him – says my God. The LORD is a
Man of war: The LORD is his Name. … Thy Right Hand, O LORD, is become glorious
in power; Thy Right Hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy. In the Greatness
of Thine Excellency Thou hast OVERTHROWN them that rose up against Thee: Thou
sentest forth thy Wrath, consumed them as stubble. … Who is like unto Thee, O
LORD, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, DOING WONDERS – forgive sins. Thou
stretchedst out THY Right Hand, the earth swallowed (Him). Thou in thy mercy
hast LED FORTH the (Man) Thou hast redeemed; thou hast GUIDED (Him) in Thy
Strength unto thy habitation. … By the Greatness of Thine Arm (He) shall be
still as a stone; till Thy People pass over, O Lord, till thy People Thou hast
PURCHASED pass over. Thou Shalt bring (Him) in, and plant (Him) in the mountain
of thine Inheritance, in The Place, O LORD, Thou hast made for Thee to dwell
in, THY SANCTUARY, O LORD, THY SANCTUARY Thou hast established. THE LORD SHALL
REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER! Sing ye to The LORD for He hath triumphed gloriously!
That is how the
First Sheaf is the Lord, “our High Priest”, offered in the
That is how the
First Sheaf is the Lord, and represents the FIRST FRUITS of the harvest— the
fruit of his labour.
That is how the
First Sheaf shows the barley is ripe— ready for harvest. But the labourers are
few, and the days for harvest count but fifty. On the day after sabbath
[“-of-Feast” – ‘hehortehs sabbatohn’] COUNT seven seven days” for harvest. “On
fifty days, WAVE THE BREAD – two loaves – of the first fruits’ shock.”
Dennis Neufeld:
… in the FIRST of
the two harvests that would take place; barley first, then the wheat. The shock
of barley presented to the Lord by the Priest in the
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
The Scriptures
know of but one harvest, fifty days long – no, seven sevens of days long –,
because on the fiftieth day the two loaves already had to be offered :
presented : waved: “before the face of the LORD. … They shall be holy to the
LORD for the Priest” of their ministration / presentation / offering.
Colossians 2:19.
Dennis Neufeld:
It does not mean
that all of the barley is ripe. It will ripen in time. That is why Jesus was
the Wave Sheaf Offering before God as seen in Rev.5. There Jesus appeared as a
Lamb that had been SACRIFICED. Jesus went to His Father as the First of the
FIRST FRUIT offering and the barley shock represented the entire barley
harvest.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Yea, “There Jesus appeared as a Lamb that had been
sacrificed STANDING”— “standing …” RESURRECTED from the dead.” … “FROM the
dead” …“STANDING”!
“THEREIN BEING BY THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD
EXALTED, THAT SAME JESUS WHOM YE HAVE CRUCIFIED … THIS JESUS GOD HATH RAISED UP
AND HATH MADE BOTH LORD AND CHRIST!” Acts 2:32-36.
Raised … being set
on the right hand of God … being exalted … indistinguishable in sequence or
level or glory. Raised … being set on the right hand of God … being exalted …
indistinguishable in sequence or level or glory: “FROM THE DEAD”!
“Being rested up
again his Name is Holies of Holies!” Isaiah 57:15. “Son of Man The Place of My
Throne, and The Place of my feet WHERE I will DWELL in their MIDST: MY HOLY
NAME.” Ezekiel 43:7. “What the breadth and length, and depth and height to know
the love of Christ!” Ephesians 3:18. Three dimensional and essential to form
and Content, “SALVATION IS OF THE LORD”— “THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS”!
Dennis Neufeld:
I do not
understand your unfounded hatred for the Laws of the Feasts and of the Laws of
Moses (unless I am reading you incorrectly). The Feast simple represented the
actual methods by which God would eradicate sin from the world, and the Wave
Sheaf Offering was but one of these.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
The Gospel of
Jesus Christ knows no different ‘agendas’, ‘stages’, ‘compartments’, or
‘methods’. In Christ in his Death and Resurrection they dissolve and disappear;
all happen “in the twinkling of an eye”— “the twinkling of an eye” of The
Resurrection of The Incorruptible, “The blessed and only Potentate, the King of
kings, and Lord of lords, who ONLY hath immortality, dwelling in The Light that
no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour
and power everlasting: End!” He is become Mediator and Intercessor on behalf of
his Elect The people of God. To expect more from Him than what He has become
and forever is for us, is worse than to deny Him altogether. Jesus Christ and
his atonement are un-improvable and un-finishable. The Feast and the whole
passover showed the actual “WAY” by whom God would eradicat sin, and the Wave
Sheaf Offering was one, but the core and heart of whole the Passover of Yahweh.
No good He died but rose not; all good He died and rose again.
Dennis Neufeld:
Just as was the
barley Jesus was 'cut off', and as the Priest waved the barley before the Lord
so too did Jesus …
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
As Our High Priest
waved the First Sheaf before the LORD, so appeared Jesus before His Father—
“appeared” “WHEN
and AS God raised Christ from the dead and set Him at his own right hand—
“appeared” according
to the Power of God who hath saved us—
“appeared” by the
exceeding greatness of his power … which God wrought in Christ—
“appeared” according
to his own Purpose and Grace given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
but IS NOW MANIFEST BY THE APPEARING
[from the dead, from death and from the grave] of our Saviour Jesus Christ who
hath ABOLISHED DEATH [having “appeared” from it] and hath brought life and
immortality to light [having “appeared” in the darkness among the mortal] through
the Gospel”, the Good News of his Resurrection and “APPEARING”, ‘PAROUSIA’, from
the dead— Christ’s ‘AWAKENING’ indeed “OUT FROM the dead” –‘ek nekrohn’ THERE
and THEN IN the “most holy” sepulchre of the “Sanctuary” of God’s PRESENCE, “in
Christ” The Risen!
Where Resurrection
and Scriptures centre and focus and concentrate and culminate the Essence and
The Presence of God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit in fullest and
most intimate DIVINE Fellowship, Dennis Neufeld and Seventh-day Adventism
created a gulping black hole— a great void of separation and absence.
Dennis Neufeld:
Jesus did appear
before His Father shortly after His conversation with Mary and 'waved' Himself
and confirmed that He had completed the assignment for which God had sent Him
to earth; to testify to the truth (Mat. 18:37) and to purchase a Kingdom (Rev.
5:9-10).
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
“Jesus 'waved' Himself and confirmed that He
had completed the assignment for which God had sent Him to earth; to testify to
the truth (Mat. 18:37) and to purchase a Kingdom (Rev. 5:9-10).”
“Wonderful! Counsellor!
The Mighty God! The Prince of Peace!” …
… “shortly after His conversation with Mary”?!
No!
“THIS the ZEAL of
the LORD of HOSTS [in battle] will perform” …
“THIS shall be
with burning and fuel of fire” … “when He by Himself had purged our sins, and
sat down on the right
hand of the Majesty on high.”
“Sit on my right
hand while I make thine ENEMIES thy footstool.”
“They desired that
He should be SLAIN
“But God raised
Him from the dead
“As it is written
“THOU, art
“My Son—
“THIS day have I
begotten Thee.
“And as concerning
that He RAISED Him up
“From the dead,
“THIS, God said,
“I will give You
the sure mercies of
“David, and put You
on the THRONE of
“David, over
“THIS, HIS KINGDOM
“And the GOVERNMENT
shall be upon
“HIS shoulder—
“Wonderful!
“Counsellor!
“The Mighty God!
“The Prince of
Peace!
“THIS, the Christ
“FOR …
“Unto us, a
“Child is given,
“Unto us, a
“A Son is given
“The Son of God—
“BORN
“FROM THE DEAD
“CHRIST
“GLORIFIED:
“Today have I
begotten Thee!
“Though He be SON,
“Yet learned He by
the things He
“SUFFERED being
“Made perfect He
“BECAME the Author
of eternal salvation.
“THIS, shall be the
“Labour of a Son
of
“For the
“A child is born
“The Son of
“And they brought
the King
“From the House of
the LORD:
“And they came
through the High Gate
“Into the King’s
house and
“SET the King upon
the Throne of the Kingdom
“And all the
People of the land
“Rejoiced
“And the city was
quiet
“AFTER THEY HAD
SLAIN ATHALIAH!”
“THIS”, “the Son
of the KING”, “with garment rolled in blood”, “raised”, and “exalted” “far
above” “the last ENEMY, DEATH”, is “THIS JESUS whom with wicked hands you have
crucified”, “First Sheaf”, “WAVED”— “WAVED BEFORE THE LORD”; is JESUS, “BORN”— “THE
FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD”!
… “shortly after His conversation with Mary”?!
No! “THIS”, the
ZEAL of the LORD of hosts performed in
Dennis Neufeld:
Jesus said to
her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but
go to My brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father,
and to My God and your God.” John 20: 17
Mary Magdalene,
finally realizing with who she was speaking , was clinging to Jesus for dear
life. Jesus told her not to hold on tightly to Him for He had yet to go
to His Father. This dovetails beautifully with the Wave Sheaf
Offering. Christ is called the Firstfruits of those who sleep. (I Cor.
15:20). He was the Firstfruits of those who will eventually be
resurrected from the grave as He was. The reason that He did not want Mary
to cling to Him was that He was the real ‘Wave Sheaf Offering’ and had not yet
appeared, ‘Waved’, before the Father in Heaven. This would mean that Jesus
would have to have been raised from the grave before the Sabbath was over in
order follow the pattern of the Wave Sheaf offering. At the exact time
that the priest ‘waved’ the barley sheaf in front of the Alter in the temple
Jesus appeared before His father Later on that same day Jesus appeared to the
disciples in the upper room and said that they could touch Him and see that He
was real.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Look at the whole
of the dramatic scene.
John 20:
1 On the First Day
of the week being early darkness still comes Mary Magdalene towards the tomb
and sees the stone taken away from the sepulchre;
2 then she runs
and comes to the disciples Simon Peter and John.
3 Peter went forth
and (John)
4 So they ran the
two of them
5 (John) outran
Peter and came first to the sepulchre.
6 Then Peter came
next but went into the sepulchre
8 Then went in
also (John)
10 Then the [two]
disciples returned home.
END OF PERICOPE.
NEW PERICOPE:
11 Now Mary had
had stood after outside the sepulchre … AS therefore she was weeping she
stooped towards the tomb and sees two angels.
This change from
one scene into the next SUPPOSES ANOTHER VISIT of the women BEFORE this setting
where Mary had remained standing behind, while the other women must have had LEFT.
Mary did not
follow the two disciples Peter and John to the grave; and she did not after
they had left, remained standing at the tomb. 1) The two disciples’ visit was
UNACCOMPANIED. They alone came to the tomb and they alone left from the tomb.
2) The TIME that
Peter and John came to the tomb, was just after Mary had seen the stone moved
away, which was, while “being
early darkness
still” shortly after SUNSET, ‘Saturday night’;
The time that
Jesus appeared to Mary, was when one would expect “the gardener” to start his
work, which was, as Mark explains it, “early on the First Day” …
3) Therefore the
Pluperfect ‘heistehkei’ which John used where he wrote that “Mary Magdalene HAD
HAD STOOD AFTER”, implies ANOTHER visit by WOMEN, AT the tomb, PRIOR to Mary’s
having “had had remained standing behind”.
So,
11 Now Mary had
had stood after outside the sepulchre … AS therefore she was weeping she
stooped towards the tomb
12 and sees two
angels … where lay the body of Jesus.
13 And those
(angels) asked Mary, Woman, why do you weep? Says she to them, That they took
my Lord, and I don’t know where they put Him.
14 Speaking these
words, Mary [stood up straight and] TURNED back (away from the tomb-opening)
and sees Jesus standing NOT REALISING it was Jesus!
15 Says Jesus to
her, Woman, why do you weep? Whom are
you looking for?
Mary thinking that
He was the GARDENER, said to Him, Sir, if it was you who carried Him away,
please tell me where you have put Him and I shall take Him.
16 Spoke Jesus,
Mary!
She Mary [now
recognising Jesus] TURNED [her BACK towards Jesus], calling out (in Hebrew) O
Teacher my Master!
17 Said Jesus to
her,
Don’t STAY
STANDING here with Me! [meh mou haptou],
because I have NOT
YET gone away to My Father.
So, Go! Go
immediately to my brothers and tell them!
Tell them [now
that I AM RISEN] I shall [soon] ascend to My Father now YOUR Father too, and to
My God now YOUR God as well!
There is NO
difficulty whatsoever with understanding Jesus’ order to Mary – unfortunately
rendered, “Don’t touch Me” – for meaning literally, “Don’t STAY STANDING here
with Me … but GO …” Don’t waste time “… and TELL my brothers!”
Jesus HAVING BEEN
our High Priest ON EARTH, ‘ascended to heaven’, right IN, and “WHEN, God RAISED
Christ from the dead and SEATED Him at his own right hand in heavenly GLORY”
BECAUSE
“God RAISED Christ
_FROM_, THE DEAD, _BY_, THE GLORY OF THE FATHER” his immediate PRESENCE— the
GLORY ‘IN THE FULL FELLOWSHIP OF THE TRINITY’. [Klaas Schilder]
“His Son Jesus
Christ our Lord DECLARED: The Son of God! With Power! DECLARED: The Son of God
ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS! DECLARED: The Son of God THROUGH
RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD!
Three times
“DECLARED: The Son of God” The Most Holy!
“Being
rested-up-again His Name is DECLARED: The Most Holy Place, Holies of Holies!”
Isaiah 57:15.
In Christ’s
Resurrection-encounter with the Father and by the Father, his LIFE as “First
Sheaf Offering BEFORE THE LORD” HOVERED: God’s Shekinah above the heavenly
mercy seat: The Most Holy Place “where they laid Him” in the Ark of the
Testimony of Joseph’s tomb hewn out of rock. Genesis 50 …
“… as in the
tabernacle pattern established by God.”
I am not ashamed
to be dogmatic about it. It is my ‘belief’— my FAITH, that the Father raised up
Jesus; no angel called Him forth from the grave! No creature! No being sinful
or sinless mortal!
As in the
tabernacle pattern, much more in the TRUE Sanctuary of God, would “his Holy
One” AWAKENING FROM THE DEAD in the Ark of Joseph’s tomb, be “TOUCHED” were it by
so much as the voice or ear or eye of a human or angel. But “… seeing this
before of the RESURRECTION of Christ, that therefore his soul was not left in
hell neither his flesh did see corruption, THIS JESUS _GOD_, RAISED UP, BEING
BY THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD [EXALTED]”.
Christ in The
Great Day of Atonement had been our Sacrifice and High Priest in The Tabernacle
of his body “once for all” and ever.
Having entered the
holy of holies of the heavenly tabernacle of RESURRECTION-LIFE “in the flesh” and
He “once for all”
and ever had been, and had become our Offering-of-LIFE and High Priest when He
resurrected: “First Sheaf Offering Waved Before the LORD”.
So much of Jesus'
life and existence here was foreshadowed in the tabernacle pattern in the Old
Testament. “In Him indeed should all fullness dwell”; He is “the Fullness of
the Gospel”, “The Fullness of Him that filleth all in all”, “THE FULLNESS OF
GOD”. “In Him dwel(t) the Fullness-of-the-Godhead-BODILY … (through) the
OPERATION of GOD, WHO, RAISED Him, FROM, the dead.”
I am therefore SURE
the KJV got it WRONG, and was ‘affected by theological influences’ to the
delight of Seventh-day Adventist dogmatism.
In death and
grave, Jesus' flesh saw no corruption; and his bones were not severed. That is
the main theme of the BONE-day of Jesus' Burial, beginning, here: Mark 15:42
Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38 Luke 23:50 ...
and, ending ...
here: John 19:42 Luke 23:54-56a.
When Jesus
appeared to Mary Magdalene, it was long after the re-unification in the Full
Fellowship of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit : "WHEN, GOD,
RAISED CHRIST, FROM, THE DEAD", death and the grave : “Late in the Sabbath
Day being mid-afternoon towards the First Day of the week."
I am not ashamed
or afraid to be dogmatic about it; let the whole world ridicule! It is from
sheer ignorance they jeer and deride.
Dennis Neufeld:
Jesus did appear
before His Father shortly after His conversation with Mary and 'waved' Himself
and confirmed that He had completed the assignment for which God had sent Him
to earth; to testify to the truth (Mat. 18:37) and to purchase a Kingdom (Rev.
5:9-10).
This
acknowledgment took place in Heaven, but while it was still dark (earth time)
early on the first day of the week; in other words, some short time after the
sun had fully set on the Sabbath day.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
If I believed the
Christian ‘Sabbath’ was the First Day of the week and not the Seventh Day
Sabbath, your statement here, dear Dennis Neufeld, would have encouraged me in
that conviction. Because what you have done here, has been to endorse Sunday
sacredness and worship. You said nothing to the support of the Seventh Day
Sabbath of the LORD GOD.
Jesus appeared
before His FATHER: _AS_ his Father RAISED HIM FROM the dead.
Fifteen hours
later – three hours of that “SABBATH’S-AFTERNOON” plus twelve hours of the
night after, He conversed with Mary John 20:11-17, “first”, “early on the First
Day of the week” Mark 16:9.
For the second
time that Sunday morning, He appeared, this time to the other women, Matthew
28:9,10.
Later the
afternoon of that Sunday, He appeared from the third
time, this time to
two disciples on their way to Emmaus.
For the next
“forty days … He appeared” – virtually daily – “to his disciples”, “AS THE
RISEN” Jesus.
Only then,
“ascended He into heaven in a cloud”.
But “God, by
the Spirit of Holiness”, “IN CHRIST” “ON THE SABBATH IN FULLNESS
BEING MID-AFTERNOON”, “BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER”, ‘WAVED’ Christ “Himself” “First Sheaf
Waved-Before-the-LORD”, “confirm(ing) that He had completed the assignment for
which God had sent Him to earth; to testify to the truth (Mat. 18:37) and to
purchase a Kingdom (Rev. 5:9-10).
Therefore ‘this acknowledgment’, took place in “THE,
Heavenly” and “Holies-of-Holies” OF CHRIST THE RESURRECTED—
not,
“while it was still dark (earth time) early
on the first day of the week”,
nor,
“some short time after the sun had fully set
on the Sabbath day” …
BUT:
“ON THE SABBATH
IN FULLNESS BEING MID-AFTERNOON” …
“…and God the
DAY the Seventh Day from ALL his works, RESTED.” Hebrews 4:4.
Dennis Neufeld:
If Passover had
occurred on Friday then this clearly would have put the wave sheaf offering on
a Monday which is an impossibility according to Scripture. Also, if Christ was
resurrected on Sunday morning then He would have missed being the ‘Wave Sheaf’
offering because the wave sheaf offering occurred shortly after sundown on the
first Sabbaton.
And you shall
count for yourselves from the day after the Sabbath,
from the day that
you brought the sheaf of the wave offering: seven Sabbaths shall be completed.
Count fifty days to the day after the seventh Sabbath(Sabbaton); then you shall
offer a new grain offering to the Lord. Lev. 23: 15-16.
The Day of
Penticost is fifty days from the day of the wave sheaf offering, and was
counted by Sabbatons; that is, seven Sabbatons plus one day.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Re: “… the ‘Wave Sheaf’ offering because the wave
sheaf offering occurred shortly after sundown on the first Sabbaton.”
No Scripture is
available to confirm this presumption. Every Scripture contradicts it. “On / In
the _morrow_ after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.” morrow’ from
‘mochorath’, “morning”; cf. Exodus 32:6 Joshua 5:12.
Dennis Neufeld:
“The counting toward Penticost started on the
‘first of the Sabbatons’.”
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
If a “Sabbaton” meant “the Seventh Day Sabbath”
(of the week), then the day that STARTED the first ‘seven’ days, could not be a
“Sabbaton” or you would have 8 so
called “Sabbatons” while Leviticus
23:15 limits them to “seven”.
Dennis Neufeld:
… The counting
toward Penticost started on the ‘first of the Sabbatons’. With Christ being
resurrected on the first of the Sabbatons and being the ‘Wave Sheaf’
offering the counting of days to Penticost comes out correctly.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
If as you say the fifty
days were counted from a First Day of the week ‘after THE Sabbath’ Seventh Day
of the week, then the fiftieth day counted is a First Day of the week AGAIN. “First
Sheaf-day” is or rather used to be on ANY day “after the sabbath” of ANY
particular year’s passover “feast according to its SEASON”.
#Since Christ
resurrected, “First-Sheaf-Feast-Day” is, and will stay, “The Sabbath’s”.
#Because IN
CHRIST, “First-Sheaf-Feast-Day” was “the NEXT day AFTER the Jew’s Preparation”
and “Fore-Sabbath”, that “THAT day …” before Christ resurrected, “… was great
day sabbath” “… of the Jews’”, passover.
#“On the Sabbath”
to GREEK idiom and NEW Testament Scriptures therefore, “the
Sabbath-OF-THE-WEEK”— “SABBATOHN”, “in these last days” and “in the fullness of
time” was the first of the fifty “counted to The Fiftieth Day” ‘Shavuoth’-
“Pentecost fully”.
# … for sooth, on
‘Saturday’ to the embarrassment of the Sundayers.
Dennis Neufeld:
Once again it
seems that the timing of events is critical to the outcome.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Amen!
Dennis Neufeld:
Only one minor
problem is left in proving that the crucifixion of Christ occurred on
Wednesday, and that is the question as to the exact day that Passover occurred
in the year that Christ was crucified.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
One …
We can find out
from the New Testament “sequence and
events” without any doubt that Christ rose from the dead “when there was
a great earthquake ON THE SABBATH mid-afternoon BEFORE the First Day of the
week” Matthew 28:1 and “AFTER the Jews’ preparations” or “the Jews’
Preparation Day” Matthew 27:62.
Two
…
We can – without
any help from outside the Scriptures – find out from the New Testament “events and sequence” alone that without
any doubt Joseph undertook to bury Jesus’ body on “the Jews’ preparations” or
“Preparation Day” Matthew 27:62 “that is the Fore-Sabbath” Mark 15:42 “THAT DAY
having been great day sabbath” of the Jews’ passover John 19:31.
We can without any
doubt and without any help from outside the Scriptures find out from the New
Testament “events and sequence”
alone, that Joseph “laid the body of Jesus” and “closed the grave” and that “the
women prepared spices … THAT DAY”, from “mid-afternoon towards the Sabbath”
Luke 23:54 and “the Jews’ preparations” had begun John 19:42, until “they began
to rest the (Fourth) Commandment Sabbath” Luke 23:56b.
Three …
We can without any
doubt and without any help from outside the Scriptures find out from the New
Testament “events and sequence”
alone, that Jesus had died and that “everybody had forsaken Him” Luke 23:48,
BEFORE “it became the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath and it was EVENING
already” Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57, on “the Preparation Day of the passover”
John 19:14.
Four
…
We can – without
any help from outside the Scriptures – find out from the New Testament “events and sequence” alone that without
any doubt Jesus “APPEARED” to Mary Magdalene and the other women “on the First
Day of the week” and that it was the day that had begun “after the Sabbath”
Mark 16:1 and with “it having been early dark still” John 20:1.
What more could a
believer ask for?!
Dennis Neufeld:
The time framework
God set up ‘In the beginning’ allows sin to run it’s course with a definite end
point at some pre-ordained time.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Amen!
Dennis Neufeld:
Notice that on the
fourth day of creation God created His clock; the sun, moon, and stars.
...and let them be
for signs and seasons, and for days and years; Gen. 1:14.
God started all of
His time pieces at the same instant, on the fourth day of creation. We know
that God started His calendar at the first new moon on or following the Spring
equinox. At creation the Spring equinox and the first new moon occurred
simultaneously on the very first Wednesday of the first week of creation.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Who told you that?
You did not read it in Genesis! Adam was created an adult. Plants and animals
were created capable of regeneration. So
why could the moon not have appeared in the sky full moon for the first time?
These are no more than speculations – yours, like mine.
Dennis Neufeld:
This month shall
be your beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year to
you. Ex. 12: 2.
God notified Moses
that the year starts with the first month.
A month starts on
a new moon, exactly as in the creation account.
To find out the
exact day on which the crucifixion took place we must first know the date for
the start of the year in which Christ was crucified.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
“This month shall
be __YOUR__ beginning of months; it shall be __to YOU__ the first month of the
year.” ‘To find out the exact day’,
“you, must, proclaim”, that is, “you must reckon out”, “you must determine” ---
man; not God must do it.
Dennis Neufeld
The year in which
Christ was crucified was a Wednesday year as shown by Dan. 9: 27. The
ministry of Christ began in 27 CE, which would then show the Wednesday year to
be 30 CE.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Although the years
you mention may be correct, it not necessarily shows the year 30 CE to be the “Wednesday
year”.
Dennis Neufeld:
Because the
Passover occurred on the 14th day of the first month we can then find the exact
day.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
That sounds more
plausible; even ‘scientific’ if you please.
Dennis Neufeld:
I did this by
going to a recognized authority on astronomy, the U.S. Naval Observatory web
site. In their Astronomical Applications Department there is a section on
Spring Phenomena, 25 BCE to 38 CE, which covers the time frame needed. The data
gathered indicates that the Vernal (Spring) equinox in the year 30 CE occurred
on March 22, a Wednesday. Further research showed that New Moon in that month,
in that year, also occurred on March
22, the same
Wednesday.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
That may be so …
although I have seen differing tables and analyses --- all claiming “Her
Majesty’s” or “U.S. Naval Observatory” origin. See book 2 of Book 1, ‘Burial’ http://www.biblestudents.co.za.
WHOM shall we
believe?
Then there also
are the difficulties of the year of Christ’s birth and the year He began his
ministry.
HOW shall we
believe anyone?
Dennis Neufeld:
Fourteen days (two
weeks) following the start of the year is Passover, also on a Wednesday.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Wait! Wait! Wait!
“Fourteen days (two weeks) following the start of the year is Passover” no
objections! But, “… also on a Wednesday”?! No! No! No!
Dennis Neufeld:
From creation God
new on what day His Son was to be crucified. And as in the Creation week both
the Spring Equinox and the New Moon fell on a Wednesday. Can this be
coincidence?
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Again! Wait! Certainly
yes, “From creation God knew on what day
His Son was to be crucified.” But that was _God_ who knew --- not us! Paul
talks about his “knowledge in the MYSTERY of Christ … whereby, when you READ,
you may understand.” Even the inspired Paul, when we read him, never lets us or
wants us understand THESE ‘mysteries’! Nowhere in any Scripture for that
matter, is anything “as it, now revealed”. Ephesians 3:4,5 cf. 1Corinthians
2:9,10.
What we need to
know, has been revealed to us in plain written words of Scripture, like in the
abundance in NEW Testament Scriptures of the names of the days and the times
and the events in their sequence AND, their prophetic origin with regard to the
“three days” of Christ’s last passover, the Passover of Yahweh “according to
the Scriptures”.
Dennis Neufeld:
The ‘experts’ tell
us that Christ was in the grave for an ‘inclusive’ three days, not literally
three days and three nights.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
In this case, you
and the ‘experts’ are BOTH wrong, since that Christ was NEITHER “in the grave
for an ‘inclusive’ three days”, NOR “in the grave for … literally three days
and three nights”.
One MUST
differentiate between what Jesus really said and what He not really said! He
did NOT say EITHER, “in the grave for an
‘inclusive’ three days”, OR “in the
grave for … literally three days and three nights”. The fault lies neither
with the words, “for an ‘inclusive’ three days”, nor with the words “for
literally three days and three nights”; the fault lies with the words and the
IDEA, “in the grave …”, “IN THE GRAVE for an ‘inclusive’ three days”;
“IN THE GRAVE for literally three days
and three nights”. We have spoken about this before, so I won’t repeat.
Dennis Neufeld:
If this is so then
by the data just presented the resurrection of Christ MUST have taken place on
Friday. We know that this is not the case.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
“… the
resurrection … on Friday”?
The ridiculous
about this is the presupposition rather of a Wednesday Burial!
Dennis Neufeld:
… the only
conclusion that can be drawn is that Christ was killed as the Passover lamb on
Wednesday at twilight on the 14th day of the first month, and was resurrected
on Sabbath at twilight three nights and three days later.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
I disagree with
your importation of “Wednesday”. But you are perfectly in the mark with “killed … on the 14th day of the first month,
and resurrected on Sabbath … three nights and three days later”— with
‘marking events’, “killed” and “resurrected”— YOUR, conclusion! NOT, _‘buried’_ the 14th day of the first month, and resurrected on Sabbath”.
If only I could
get you to see this, dear Dennis Neufeld, I shall be most grateful to you and
to our God and his Christ.
Thank you very
much, Dennis Neufeld, for having allowed me the opportunity to discus this
relevant ‘issue’ to a better understanding of the mystery of Godliness, the
Passover of our Lord Jesus Christ Yahweh Elohim, “I-AM THE ALMIGHTY”.
Dennis Neufeld:
The beauty of the
Wednesday crucifixion is that all the texts that describe what went on during
the latter part of that week fit so neatly, and without effort. Jesus said that
He would be in the grave three nights and three days.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Yes, “Jesus said that He would be in the grave
three nights and three days” has been said with far too little “effort”.
There are MANY
other shortcomings than those I have touched on in the MANY “Wednesday crucifixion” theories that
suddenly the last fifty years have appeared. But you are free to read for
yourself ‘The Lord’s Day in the Covenant of Grace’ and other articles and
discussion on http://www.biblestudents.co.za.
Dennis Neufeld:
The timing of the
events of the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread fit perfectly; the
lamb is slain on the day before the Passover, the Passover meal is eaten
between dark and dawn, the Feast of Unleavened Bread starting after Passover
and is followed three days later by the Wave Sheaf Offering, always on the day
after a Sabbath.
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
Re: >>“the lamb is slain on the day
before the Passover”<<
The lamb was slain
“on the first day they killed the passover and removed leaven” on, __the
passover__ “before the Passover-FEAST” day of Unleavened Bread EATEN,
John 13:1. Both 14 and 15 Abib are “passover”, and both, are “feast” of
passover. Exodus 12:14. The distinction between Abib 14 as “the first, first (passover-)
day ye shall remove leaven [during night] and kill the passover [during day]”, and
Abib 15 “the first (passover-) day ye shall eat no leaven”, came later, Exodus
12:15,18 Leviticus 23:5,6 et al.
Re: >>“the Passover meal is eaten
between dark and dawn”<<
Yes … before
midnight, Exodus 12:12,23,29,42.
Dennis Neufeld:
>>“the Feast of Unleavened Bread
starting after Passover and is followed three days later by the Wave Sheaf
Offering”<<
Gerhard Ebersöhn:
The Feast of Abib
15 of Unleavened Bread started
after Passover
Abib 14 the “day they killed the passover” Mark 14:12 et al,
because “the
Feast” John 13:1 of Abib 15
began “when it had
become evening” Mark 15:42 of Abib 15,
“and it was that
day, great day sabbath” of passover John 19:31.
“The third day” later,
“on the day after
the sabbath” of Abib 15
was “the First
Sheaf Offering”
“waved before the
LORD” and
“the Sanctuary
finished being cleansed
“on the sixteenth
day of the First Month” 2Chronicles 29:17
… by Christ’s Resurrection
from the dead.
“All the filth”
king Ahaz the wicked one
“brought into”
the “temple” of the “people’s court”
“into the inner
part” and heart of sin of men,
“Our Passover”,
“according to the commandment of the King”,
“came”, and
“cleansed”
and
“carried out”—
“all the
uncleanness,
“abroad”, and
“over the
“and sanctified
the House of the LORD and …
“in the
sixteenth day of the First Month …
“MADE AN END of
CLEANSING.” 2Chronicles 29:17.
Now mark how
thoroughly the cleansing was done, verses 18,19!
“Then Hezekiah
the king rose early and gathered the rulers and went up to the house of the
LORD.”
They prepared and
went up
for to WORSHIP …
ON THE SABBATH DAY
“as on the New
Earth every Sabbath Day
“it shall come
to pass
… but for the
sacrifices …
“that all flesh
shall come to worship
“THE FIRST
SHEAF” CHRIST,
“BEFORE THE
LORD,
“saith the LORD!
The sacrifices
were those for the Sabbath Day.
The priests
sounded the trumpets as always only on Sabbath Days was done.
The Song of the
LORD, “of Moses and of the Lamb”, they sang, the “Psalm for the Sabbath” on
which the LORD
“planted”
commanded them to
“remember the Sabbath” for it.
“And they bowed
and worshipped, and sang praises and “consecrated themselves to the
LORD.
“So the SERVICE
of the House of the LORD was set in ORDER.”
That was
SABBATH-keeping by the CHURCH of God on the date the first sheaf was last offered
by waving, and on the Sabbath Day that The First Sheaf of all the Redeemed was first
waved having been “offered before the LORD” through Resurrection from the dead
of Jesus Christ our Lord.
In 2Chronicles 29
it was PRECISELY the same date of season’s feast and Sabbath of the week as at
the first the passover at the Exodus, and PRECISELY the same date of season’s
feast and Sabbath of the week as at the Last Passover of Yahweh in Jesus
Christ— the Sabbath three times in the climax of ages confirmed, the Sabbath
Day of Jesus’ Resurrection from the dead.
But that is not “The
beauty” or “the timing”, “of the
Wednesday crucifixion”; that is the beauty of the timing of Christ’s
Resurrection “according to the Scriptures the third day” “IN
SABBATH’S FULLNESS”, that gave impetus to a Fifth Day of the week Abib 14
Crucifixion AND a “Fore-Sabbath” Abib 15 Burial of Jesus Christ Lord of the
Lord’s Day Sabbath of the LORD – let us pray – your, God. Amen.
Dennis Neufeld:
It is evident that
there were two Sabbaths - one the Festival Sabbath the other the seventh-day
Sabbath, three days apart. The First Fruits (wave sheaf offering) always
occurred after Passover on the day following that Sabbath.
The Passover
always occurred on a full moon 15 days following the first day of the month as
signified by the new moon.
Translator bias
and/or error is evident in the way Scripture is currently presented. Great care
must be taken in separating what is real from what is manipulated to achieve a
personal or corporate belief.
Finally, empirical
data gleaned from the U.S. Naval Observatory shows that the fourteenth day of
the first month in the year 30 CE occurred on a Wednesday, not on Friday.
All of this
indicates that Jesus Christ was resurrected on the Sabbath evening before
sundown. Was He resurrected on Sunday morning as most Christians believe? Or
was He resurrected on the Sabbath as Scripture and outside data seems to
indicate? Search your heart and soul, then decide.
What an incredible
vision God has for the Sabbath! On it He rested after Creation and set it aside
as a permanent memorial. He resurrected His Son on the Sabbath as the
First fruits of those who sleep, and in the earth-made-new we will all gather
together to worship our Creator/King from one new moon to another and from one
Sabbath to another. It would be entirely within God’s character and would not
surprise me in the least if Jesus Christ returned to this earth in the clouds
of glory on the Sabbath day.
© 2000
Spirit of Truth Ministries
End of discussion 25
July 2012
This study,
Wednesday Crucifixion of Jesus Christ ?
Debate:
Neufeld Dennis / Gerhard Ebersöhn
by
Gerhard Ebersöhn
26 06 12
‘The Lord’s Day in the Covenant of Grace’